Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:16:59 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com> To: Darryl Okahata <darrylo@sr.hp.com> Cc: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...) Message-ID: <37F9DE2B.52701159@newsguy.com> References: <199910050728.AAA04586@mina.sr.hp.com>
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Darryl Okahata wrote: > > The "old-fashioned way"? While the "look before you leap" > philosophy, which is excellent advice, has been around Usenet since time > immemorial, I've yet to meet or hear about anyone that's actually done > it (when they were a newbie, that is), although people here could be the > first. Pleased to meet you. My name is Daniel Sobral, and I have always done so since I first joined Fidonet & Bitnet, back in 1990. Now you know someone. As a matter of fact, in one of the lists I subscribe to, I have never *EVER* seen someone make a first post without mentioning that they have been lurking for a while. So, it's not that uncommon. > As much as we'd like people to follow the "old-fashioned way", the > Usenet/Internet is a strange, unfamiliar place. Even intelligent people > have trouble applying "common sense" to it, at least at first. Treating > all questions as "novice crud, to be shunned/insulted", is not very "Insulted"? You were complaining about being ignored. > productive. It makes the FreeBSD crowd look like they're saying "see > figure 1" to all newcomers. Let me introduce you to the lists charters, at http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL. I'll call this link "figure 1" from here on. > I agree. I feel the same way about adults who act like children. > However, people seem to be treating all "non-advanced" questions as > "useless novice crud, to be insulted and shunned". There's got to be > something in the middle ground. On the one hand, you definitely don't > want to cater to the lazy, but you also don't want to treat all > "simpler questions" as crud. It's like using an incinerator to kill > fleas on a dog; yes, it works, but it has undesirable side-effects. Simple questions? See figure 1. > If someone sees one of these "simpler" questions, they should > either ignore it, point them to the FAQ (assuming that the FAQ has an > answer), or post a polite answer, without emotionally-loaded phrases. Rather, these people should have seen figure 1. How the hell they came upon -hackers without seeing figure 1, anyway? > > This is and has been common courtesy on Usenet newsgroups and Usenet, > > later Internet mailing lists, since I've had Usenet access - about 1985. > > If you don't know that, you don't even belong on the net, let alone this > > newsgroup. > > Ah. This here's a pefect example of an emotionally-loaded and > possibly insulting sentence. Yes, what is said is largely true, but > it's said in a fashion that is, well, rude (this doesn't bother me, but > it would definitely bother other people). He is being direct. The point here is that we are NOT treating you like someone who made a simple question. We are treating you as someone who came upon a discussion, made a comment that is widely disagreed with, and kept discussing, though slowly changing the initial position you defended into another one, as to better deal with what we argued. At this point, we often resort to being direct, because we feel we might have been too oblique in the previous messages. As for the last sentence in particular, see figure 1. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Rule 69: Do unto other's code as you'd have it done unto yours To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
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