Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:24:51 +1000 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Malartre <malartre@aei.ca> Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies Message-ID: <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 05:13:30PM -0400 References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <Pine.BSF.3.96.980420103220.1190A-100000@avalon.ns.rogers.wave.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca>
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On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 05:13:30PM -0400, Malartre wrote:
[entire original message quoted and ignored - deleted]
> The main Idea is than newbies cannot really ask a question on any of the
> #FreeBSD I have visited.
OK. Does that mean that the reason you want a newbies channel is purely
that you want a channel where you *can* ask questions? Like I said, who
will answer them? As someone pointed out recently, if it is only newbies
then the advice given will be the worst advice available anywhere on
FreeBSD.
> On Efnet #FreeBSD, a guy say to me than I was (not the exactly term he use...)
> stupid because of a *stupid* question on FTP.
Maybe those people want to talk to people using FreeBSD, not people
learning FreeBSD, and they feel like you are making them work :-) If there
was #freebsd-newbies on efnet as well as #freebsd, that might make it
better for everyone. People on #freebsd wouldn't have to hear newbie
questions and newbies on efnet would have somewhere to go. It sounds like
there's a lot of newbies there already. I don't see enough people talking
about it here to sustain a channel in a new place.
You will always find hostility on irc if you take a channel for
intermediate users and try to force them to deal with newbies. If you want
to see the strongest hostility toward newbies that exists, you will
probably find that if you go to where freebsd developers are trying to
work together and get in their way, in any medium.
> So anyway, I think we should have a channel for newbies.
> The problem with multiple #freebsd-newbies is than we are not a lot or
> people right now.
And how are we going to increase the number of newbies using irc?
What do we have to offer?
> So irc.freebsd.org should be fine.
I asked on -hackers what they thought of this. So far a couple replied
in -chat saying they can't see any problem, a couple replied in -hackers
saying they would be very worried if we tried that, and some were so
upset they wrote to me privately explaining (not always in nice
language!) some reasons why we should not go there. Maybe there are more
comments on both sides still to come, maybe even suggestions for how we
could make it work well. Would you like a summary of what they said?
> what are you thinking?
I'm thinking that whatever a group of newbies wants to do by themselves
is OK, IF AND ONLY IF they have thought it through and understand the
consequences. All newbies will be held responsible for the outcomes.
IRC is a very public place.
I posted some questions here to help you and others think it through. So
far they have been ignored. I don't mind that. Someone else might have a
better list of questions to consider. What I'd like to see is some brain
involvement before actions, but maybe that's too restrictive for newbies.
All I see so far, though, looks like lack of forethought, willingness to
work hard but unwillingness to take responsibility for the outcomes or
even consider what they might be. I repeat, this is not school! You are
expected to be mature enough to make your own decisions after doing the
necessary research, as well as suffering the consequences (to yourself
and others) if the decisions are not wisely made.
There is no directing other than your own ability to analyse the
situation and act appropriately, and there is certainly no teacher to
come along and tidy up after class. Do your research, plan carefully,
discuss, incorporate the good ideas from others, and then you can do
anything you like with the whole community's support. Skimp on planning,
and you can still do whatever you want but you won't get the support you
need to make it work.
Does anyone have the guts to answer the questions I posted earlier, or to
substitute their own?
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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