Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2026 11:53:16 -0500 From: Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> To: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=C5=82a?= <trasz@freebsd.org>, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Why I am retiring from contributing to FreeBSD" Message-ID: <CAOzHqcJkNTULe_L6iofzchp5Qzit9g%2BG0Y3adygTguqbWTEJ3A@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CA%2B1FSijSw09JWedES1ppECTqftP-eMOAwiHVpj_esRbTWLAXSA@mail.gmail.com> References: <aVOUXGJsnyae4-ND@pustaq.ultrahub> <CA%2B1FSijSw09JWedES1ppECTqftP-eMOAwiHVpj_esRbTWLAXSA@mail.gmail.com>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] The opposite of valor isn’t cowardice. It’s dismissiveness. They can’t help but be opaque. That comes with the territory of being thought police. On Thu, Jan 1, 2026 at 10:14 AM Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote: > >Edward Tomasz Napierala : > > >The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or > not,that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They > don’t even bother answering emails at this point. > > > Is this a good attitude ? Maybe he only wants to have a constructive > dialogue with them. Just for the sake of my curiosity. If they don't want > to talk,isn't this a negation of the A denial of the democratic spirit, > because they deprive him of his freedom of expression by countering their > freedom to remain silent. It would seem democratic, because everyone has > exercised their right. However, the denial of constructive dialogue among > themselves deprives the community of some of the founding characteristics > of democracy. One: the possibility of growth and improvement. Two: > transparency: the ability to bring to light any fragile positions taken by > someone, always with a view to collectively safeguarding the project. Furthermore, > I would like to know what other space he has to express his thoughts if the > primary one is denied. Don't the rules establish the possibility for > someone to escalate unresolved issues by bringing them to the attention of > an external council ? > > Thanks. > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2025 at 9:59 AM Edward Tomasz Napierała <trasz@freebsd.org> > wrote: > >> Hi, I’m trasz@; over past two decades I wrote the iSCSI stack, >> and autofs(4), and rctl(8), and ZFS ACLs, and reroot, and some other >> bits, working for FreeBSD Foundation and now University of Cambridge. >> Currently I’m in a weird situation where FreeBSD core team (likely) >> won’t kick me out until I release the email archive documenting their >> mishandling of a certain incident, including them lying to my face >> to discourage me from speaking up about it. >> >> Or, they could kick me out for protesting against genocide in a way >> that hurt core team member’s income streams. Or because a YouTuber >> they like asked them to. We’ll know the official excuse once it >> happens :) >> >> This email is about something else though. Normally this would barely >> raise any eyebrows, but given current circumstances it deserves closer >> look: seems like core@ scared away another long time contributor: >> >> https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=50102.0 >> >> The background - record of someone’s hurt feelings - can be found at: >> >> >> https://web.archive.org/web/20250616201452/https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=280701 >> >> Note that I don’t know the situation and so I’m not definitely claiming >> core is in the wrong here - just that it would be naive to blindly trust >> they are still doing the right thing, given recent history. >> >> The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not, >> that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t >> even bother answering emails at this point. >> >> Another committer declared that “the proper way is to elect better core >> team next time”. And so there is this fundamental problem that we grew >> attached to larping democracy with core elections. Real democracy depends >> on being able to criticise the elected team, which in FreeBSD is not >> currently allowed; any discussion on this topic gets immediately squashed. >> Democracy also requires transparency, which is something that we used >> to have, at least betwen core and developers, until the current core team >> “forgot about it”. This whole mechanism is fundamentally broken, yet >> we refuse to acknowledge that and instead continue the cargo cult. >> >> So, go read the links above, then ask core@ what happened there. >> Sorry I have to do it like this in public, but my previous, more private, >> attempts have all been ignored. >> >> >> > > -- > Mario. > [-- Attachment #2 --] <div dir="auto">The opposite of valor isn’t cowardice.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It’s dismissiveness.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They can’t help but be opaque. That comes with the territory of being thought police.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 1, 2026 at 10:14 AM Mario Marietto <<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>>Edward Tomasz Napierala : </div><div><br></div><div>>The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not,that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t even bother answering emails at this point.</div><div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Is this a good attitude ? Maybe he only wants to have a constructive dialogue with them. Just for the sake of my curiosity. If they don't want to talk,isn't this a negation of the <span lang="en"><span><span>A denial of the democratic spirit, because they deprive him of his freedom of expression by countering their freedom to remain silent.</span></span> <span><span>It would seem democratic, because everyone has exercised their right.</span></span> <span><span>However, the denial of constructive dialogue among themselves deprives the community of some of the founding characteristics of democracy.</span></span> <span><span>One: the possibility of growth and improvement.</span></span> <span><span>Two: transparency: the ability to bring to light any fragile positions taken by someone, always with a view to collectively safeguarding the project.</span></span> <span><span>Furthermore, I would like to know what other space he has to express his thoughts if the primary one is denied.</span></span> <span><span>Don't the rules establish the possibility for someone to escalate unresolved issues by bringing them to the attention of an external council ?</span></span></span><div dir="ltr"><div><span></span><span></span><span></span></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 30, 2025 at 9:59 AM Edward Tomasz Napierała <<a href="mailto:trasz@freebsd.org" target="_blank">trasz@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi, I’m trasz@; over past two decades I wrote the iSCSI stack,<br> and autofs(4), and rctl(8), and ZFS ACLs, and reroot, and some other<br> bits, working for FreeBSD Foundation and now University of Cambridge.<br> Currently I’m in a weird situation where FreeBSD core team (likely)<br> won’t kick me out until I release the email archive documenting their<br> mishandling of a certain incident, including them lying to my face<br> to discourage me from speaking up about it.<br> <br> Or, they could kick me out for protesting against genocide in a way<br> that hurt core team member’s income streams. Or because a YouTuber<br> they like asked them to. We’ll know the official excuse once it<br> happens :)<br> <br> This email is about something else though. Normally this would barely<br> raise any eyebrows, but given current circumstances it deserves closer<br> look: seems like core@ scared away another long time contributor:<br> <br> <a href="https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=50102.0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=50102.0</a><br>; <br> The background - record of someone’s hurt feelings - can be found at:<br> <br> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250616201452/https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=280701" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20250616201452/https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=280701</a><br>; <br> Note that I don’t know the situation and so I’m not definitely claiming<br> core is in the wrong here - just that it would be naive to blindly trust<br> they are still doing the right thing, given recent history.<br> <br> The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not,<br> that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t<br> even bother answering emails at this point.<br> <br> Another committer declared that “the proper way is to elect better core<br> team next time”. And so there is this fundamental problem that we grew<br> attached to larping democracy with core elections. Real democracy depends<br> on being able to criticise the elected team, which in FreeBSD is not<br> currently allowed; any discussion on this topic gets immediately squashed.<br> Democracy also requires transparency, which is something that we used<br> to have, at least betwen core and developers, until the current core team<br> “forgot about it”. This whole mechanism is fundamentally broken, yet<br> we refuse to acknowledge that and instead continue the cargo cult.<br> <br> So, go read the links above, then ask core@ what happened there.<br> Sorry I have to do it like this in public, but my previous, more private,<br> attempts have all been ignored.<br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Mario.<br></div> </blockquote></div></div>home | help
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