Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:08:44 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon <avg@FreeBSD.org> To: Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> Cc: Ian Lepore <freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle Message-ID: <4F16A83C.5070204@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <CADWvR2j4b8f_%2BRY8ytAXQr-LKrq0iqPigAxtzTHL-8sSJbbcXw@mail.gmail.com> References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1112211415580.19710@kozubik.com> <op.v78i3yxi34t2sn@tech304> <4F15C44F.1030208@freebsd.org> <1326836797.1669.234.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <4F16019F.2060300@FreeBSD.org> <1326843399.1669.249.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <4F160B99.1060001@FreeBSD.org> <CADWvR2jdeu6R%2BmX1n2Uz1WUBcZ=BKWSDB4nR-rEv_P4jAZg3HQ@mail.gmail.com> <4F16900A.90905@FreeBSD.org> <CADWvR2j4b8f_%2BRY8ytAXQr-LKrq0iqPigAxtzTHL-8sSJbbcXw@mail.gmail.com>
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on 18/01/2012 12:54 Igor Mozolevsky said the following: > On 18 January 2012 09:25, Andriy Gapon <avg@freebsd.org> wrote: >> on 18/01/2012 02:16 Igor Mozolevsky said the following: >>> Seriously, WTF is the point of having a PR system that allows patches >>> to be submitted??! When I submit a patch I fix *your* code (not yours >>> personally, but you get my gist). >> >> Let me pretend that I don't get it. It is as much your code as it is mine if >> you are a user of FreeBSD. I just happen to have a commit bit at this point in >> time. > > Actually that is not true at all, it is in no way "my" code because > there is absolutely nothing I can do to change it (evidently, even if > I do submit patches ;-) )---I'm, at best, an involved bystander!.. In a philosophical sense you are what you chose to be. If you really want to change the code you can make it happen. Fork being an ultimate option, but there are many less dramatic ways. >>> No other project requires a >>> non-committer to be so ridiculously persistent in order to get a patch >>> through. >> >> There are about 5000 open PRs for FreeBSD base system, maybe more. >> There are only a few dozens of active FreeBSD developers. Maybe less for any >> given particular point in time (as opposed to a period of time). >> And dealing with PRs is not always exciting. >> Need I continue? > > Is that because there are so many bugs that need fixing or is it > because PRs get ignored/become staled? Sorry for saying the obvious, but it is because the PRs are fixed at slower rate than they are opened. > From the preceding discussion > it appears to be more of the latter than the former. Impressions can be deceiving. Honestly, do you believe that all committers are willfully ignoring the PRs just to cause pain to the users? Or do you consider a possibility that there is an objective reason why the things are the way they are? > While I > appreciate the excitement in churning out new "edge" code, pretending > that old bugs do not exist will not simply make them go away... Nobody pretends that. > In > fact, given the large number of PRs (and thus presumably ones > containing patches) what are the chances that some devs are trying to > reinvent the wheel and write a fix that is already contained within > the PR system? That does happen from time to time. > Equally, there's probably a large number of PRs that > are simply not relevant any more... Definitely. > Throwing toys out of the pram > because there's just "too much" stuff to do is really not the answer > I'm afraid... So what's your suggestion? But, please, nothing involving other people spontaneously starting to do what you believe to be the right thing. BTW, there is also a gnats only commit bit. And you can post followups to the PRs even without a commit bit. Any work would be appreciated. -- Andriy Gapon
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