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Date:      Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:40:59 -0800
From:      Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
To:        shimon@simon-shapiro.org
Cc:        Chuck Robey <chuckr@glue.umd.edu>, Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, julian@whistle.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at, Karl Denninger <karl@mcs.net>
Subject:   Re: Old farts blathering (was Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... ) 
Message-ID:  <199803070440.UAA02245@dingo.cdrom.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:34:07 PST." <XFMail.980306203407.shimon@simon-shapiro.org> 

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> 
> On 07-Mar-98 Mike Smith wrote:
> > 
> > Where I come from we shoot people like this before they get started.  
> > The last time I had to put up with this, the geezer in question was 
> > busy trying to explain how resistors were more vulnerable to static 
> > electricity than capacitors.
> 
> I see from the below, you have very little trouble joining in :-)

So it seems.  I think us young farts have a controbution to make too.

> >> >From R/C car racing, a sub-c NiCd battery will put out 60 AMp for about
> >> >3.5
> >> minutes.
> > 
> > That's 3.5Ah, which is substantially beyond the capacity of a "sub-c" 
> > NiCd cell (usually around 1.1Ah until quite recently).  In reality, 
> > that sort of discharge rate will cause electrolyte depletion and 
> > self-regulation after a few seconds, although even then in older cells 
> > there's room for the sucker to pop on you.
> 
> I thought so too.  First, the cells are nominally 1,700MaH, then the
> chargers are really tricky, then the batteries have the life expectancy of
> an NHRA funny car engine, then they get hot enough during a run that you
> cannot solder the tabs, they must be welded, or the pack will fall apart,
> then the cells must be one particular Sanyo model.  If not, all that you
> said happens.  Quite amazing.

Hmm, I prefer the Varta 2.2Ah cells actually.  The Sanyo ones have lots 
of "these are great" legends floating around, but the "really tricky" 
charger you're describing is basically just a box with a DC regulator 
and an energy polariser crystal, and I still never saw them create 
energy from nowhere.

But I 'fess that most of the little driving I did was off-road, where 
capacity per weight matters more than peak output.  I used to think 
those weenies in the shopping centre carparks on weekends were just 
that.  (Hmm, I guess over here you can't do that sort of thing in that 
sort of carpark, what with 7-day shopping and all.)

> > DC-is-better-than-AC is a comfortable myth with a grounding in FUD and 
> > a fertile ground in the not-so-well-informed minds of Telco engineers.
> 
> Yup.  We are back to Edison-vs.Tesla all over again :-)

That seems to be about it.  Edison got the telcos and Tesla the 
utilities.
> > You have to be outrageously stingy to produce rotten DC these days, or 
> > just obsessed with doing it the hard way.  (Of course, PC manufacturers 
> > are typically outrageously stingy...)
> 
> Yup.  The WDT board I am polishing the driver for alarms for low-voltage on
> a new, EXPENSIVE, rackmount CPU box.  No, the WDT is not broken, but the 5V
> is really 4.73.  You are right, you have to try hard to mess up...

Have you tried adjusting the output on the supply?  Like I said, PC 
manufacturers are pretty stingy; it was probably factory-set at about 
35C and 90% RH with no more than a few minutes runtime.

We used to make a habit of readjusting supplies in the (expensive) 
rackmount CPU cases we bought, particularly for systems destined for 
(ant)arctic environments where the air-on temperature with the gear 
unattended could be expected to run below 10C on a regular basis.

They were generally quite stable, just wrong when they arrived.
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com



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