Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:47:22 -0500
From:      Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net>
To:        freebsd-fs@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: How to speed up slow zpool scrub?
Message-ID:  <08d59afe-c835-fa8d-0e52-78afcb1cc030@denninger.net>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.20.1604290821210.23612@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References:  <381846248.2672053.1461695277122.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <381846248.2672053.1461695277122.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1461736217.1121.17.camel@michaeleichorn.com> <alpine.GSO.2.20.1604290821210.23612@freddy.simplesystems.org>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms070706040406030308010403
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 4/29/2016 08:31, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016, Michael B. Eichorn wrote:
>>
>> It does not *need* to be ECC ram, ECC is just *highly recommended*. As=

>> one of the key features of zfs is bitrot prevention, it makes sense to=

>> protect against bitrot everywhere. Zfs (and thus freenas) is just fine=

>> with non-ecc ram. Just, like for any filesystem if the bit is flipped
>> in ram it will be recorded as such on disk.
>
> This is not necessarily the case.  Zfs does not offer additional
> protections for data in RAM.  It assumes that data in RAM is protected
> in other ways.  The on-disk checksum only verifies that the data was
> not modified since it was checksummed, but it may already be corrupt.
> The risk factor is pretty high if RAM becomes corrupted since zfs uses
> so much RAM.
>
> It is possible to lose data and even the whole pool due to memory
> corruption.
>
> There are well known cases where users encountered continual/periodic
> pool corruptions due to flaky RAM.
>
> Bob

To amplify what Bob said using ZFS on a system without ECC RAM is just
begging to lose the entire pool at some point due to a random bit-error
in system memory and the fact that it happened may be completely
concealed from you for quite a while until at a random later point in
time you discover the pool is hopelessly corrupt.

ZFS makes the *assumption*, fair or not, that everything in its
RAM-based caches is correct.  If that assumption is violated you will
eventually be a very sad Panda.  Use ECC memory or don't use ZFS.

--=20
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net>
/The Market Ticker/
/[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/

--------------ms070706040406030308010403
Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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--------------ms070706040406030308010403--



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?08d59afe-c835-fa8d-0e52-78afcb1cc030>