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Date:      Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:22:00 -0600
From:      Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
To:        Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>
Cc:        Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>, Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com>, <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: 4.3-BETA
Message-ID:  <15026.62584.999579.19774@guru.mired.org>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.32.0103170011580.15423-100000@zoraida.reyes.somos.net>
References:  <15025.56670.539540.505724@guru.mired.org> <Pine.BSF.4.32.0103170011580.15423-100000@zoraida.reyes.somos.net>

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Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net> types:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Mike Meyer wrote:
> > Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com> types:
> > >
> > > --- Matthew Emmerton <matt@gsicomp.on.ca> wrote:
> > > > > What is a BETA system? Is it similiar to CURRENT?
> > > >
> > > > Please search through the mailing list archives
> > > > before asking questions.
> > > > This has been answered many times over the last two
> > > > weeks.
> 
> > Or maybe just read the FAQ <URL:
> > http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/admin.html#dmin.html#RELEASE-CANDIDATE >,
> > which makes it clear that the name changes just identify what point of
> > the release cycle that particular snapshot of -STABLE is at.
> I have seen several people tell Haikal to read the FAQ, etc....
> I really have to agree with him. I don't think having a "Beta" label on
> what is defined in the handbook as "Stable" is a good idea.
> 
> By definition a "new user" to FreeBSD is someone who doesn't know yet
> what are the right places to read/check.

In that case, where did they find the information needed to upgrade to
-STABLE?

> I think responses like the ones he got are the reason we consistantly over
> the years get views of sometimes been unfrienly to new users.

We're definitely friendlier to people who show evidence of having done
some research themselves than to those who don't show that evidence.

Personally, I always provide a pointer to existing documentation
rather than type it in myself. That saves me typing, and the users
should learn about another valuable resource that works faster than
the mail lists.

Haikal wasn't asking for help, he was suggesting inappropriate changes
to the system to try and help people who had gotten past the newbie
stage - as demonstrated by managing to update to -STABLE, getting
both userland and kernel - past a problem.

> Perhaps a label of "Pre-Release" may be less confusing. "Beta" sure gives
> the wrong impression.

That suggestion isn't inappropriate. On the other hand the label "-RC"
(release candidate) stil generates problems, so I'm not sure it would
work. I suspect that *any* change in name will generate "I tried to
get -STABLE, and got -FOO" messages. Not changing it would make life
difficult for users who *wanted* to know they were getting a BETA or
RC version.

Possibly this information needs to go in the handbook on tracking
-STABLE, rather than a FAQ.

	<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.

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