Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:59:18 +1100 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Yong Lim <yong@csfi.com> Cc: Rick Hamell <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>, "SILVER, MICHAEL A" <MSILVER@scana.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <NDBBLNEEEKNNPEMEDDDKGEGNCNAA.yong@csfi.com>; from Yong Lim on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500 References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0102081221250.2710-100000@heorot.1nova.com> <NDBBLNEEEKNNPEMEDDDKGEGNCNAA.yong@csfi.com>
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On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote:
> For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it
> is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out.
Is freebsd-questions a problem? Then I suggest we deal with it directly.
Using -newbies to do what -questions already does, or should
do, is sweeping it under the carpet and making it worse.
And if you do want some changes to freebsd-questions, once you've
broken the ground rules for list charters you have a very wobbly
leg to stand on.
Would you like some FreeBSD gurus to decide what is
wrong with your attitude to freebsd-questions? Or do you think
your interests would be better served by discussion amongst
newbies only, to outline the problems we have with -questions
and try to find some real newbie-oriented solutions?
Where do you think we could talk about that stuff, huh? Where?
Where would we be allowed to? Where could we discuss newbie to newbie
without some heavy pushing their point of view or blaming a newbie for
their own distress? Where could we get something off our chest without
shoving it in the face of the person whose error might have caused our
difficulties?
If we don't clutter freebsd-questions with chat, and don't ask
or answer support questions here, they'll leave us alone. We
have a "gentlemen's agreement" from most of the helpers that
they'll keep their noses out of here and let us let off steam
without any wrist slaps or non-newbie points of view. It's a
deal that this list is based on, and most of the time everyone
sticks to it without trouble. But note that freebsd-questions
is the one and only central place for support questions and
answers, no matter what level you think they are.
But it's not working. We also agreed that if it didn't work
we'd close freebsd-newbies down. If we do that, then don't ever
even THINK of having space to find real solutions to any
freebsd-questions issues as they arise without interference
from people who think they know more about newbies than a
real newbie. The best helpers on -questions openly state that
they can't claim to know what newbies feel, and they support
the idea of having this list to work it out among peers only.
They might read sometimes, but they won't butt in. We always
have a couple of people who won't play by the rules, though,
at all levels, so watch out.
You have a problem with freebsd-questions? Then you'd better bloody
well fix it, together, before some misguided hyper-intelligent
blinkered fool imposes their own 'fix' on you. Fixing starts with
describing and defining the problem, then looking at the causes,
options, etc. Only you people can do that, alone, on your own turf, and
any hero who tries to help you will only make it worse. You must find a
way to make freebsd-questions work for you, because nobody else can
speak for you.
Your choice. Work it out properly, your way, here, or shut up and wear it.
PS
I too would support the name change to freebsd-newbies-chat, as I
recommended two years ago. At last feedback it didn't match the
FreeBSD list naming format, and adjusting to a change would be a
big job for very little return judging from the way newbies refuse
to read or abide by list charters anyway. By your actions you can
prove them wrong.
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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