Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:57:56 -0700 From: Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca> To: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> Cc: Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>, Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Package system wishlist Message-ID: <200207120457.g6C4vux4006072@cwsys.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: Message from Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> of "Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:22:06 PDT." <3D2CEBCE.55DC3C6D@softweyr.com>
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Sorry for the late reply, management course.
In message <3D2CEBCE.55DC3C6D@softweyr.com>, Wes Peters writes:
> Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group wrote:
> >
> > In message <3D2BE142.E25CA9BC@mindspring.com>, Terry Lambert writes:
> > > So, following Jordan's advice, what's on everyone's wishlist?
> > >
> > > Terry's Wishlist:
> > [...]
> >
> > + Cy's Wishlist:
> >
> > o Optional installation of sources. RH's SRPM's is a very poor
> > example of this. A better example would be what IBM does to
> > install JES/2 on their MVS system, e.g. an OpenSSH package might
> > contain source in addition to binaries. The sources would be
> > installed in /usr/src while the binaries would be installed
> > in /usr/bin, sbin....
>
> Yes! My mythical XML metadata format, with or without external "filesets",
> would handle this with aplomb. The source set would be included in the
> metadata and you could skip it or install it as with any other fileset.
> Come to think of it, you could include the ports Makefile and patches as
> well. Hmm, that bears some thinking about. Most of what is in a "port"
> right now is metadata too.
IBM used UCL. XML is better.
>
> > o Files replaced by a package backed up in case of package removal
>
> I'm not sure what you mean here. Be able to create a backup script of
> the files related to a package for backing up? Be able to restore only
> missing files from a package? Both seem like good ideas...
If for example openssh-overwrite-base-3.4p1 is installed, the old
binaries are saved (backed up) before the package is installed. If I
pkg_delete openssh-overwrite-base-3.4p1, the old ssh files are restored
(reappear).
>
> > o Check option: Tell me what it will do without doing it
> >
> > o Group option: Install prerequisites
>
> Wouldn't you want this to be the default, perhaps with an option to
> abort if they're not "readily available"???
You're right. Then there should be an option to just install the
selected packages and nothing else. This would allow for "creative"
problem solving.
>
> > o Groupextend option: Install postrequisites, e.g. dependent
> > packages and patches
>
> In other words, roll portupgrade into the system.
Yes.
>
> > o Ability to install my own packages on top of packages and
> > patches, I like to call them USERMODS.
>
> Your own packages or your changes to a standard package? I can see the
> value, but how to do it doesn't leap immediately to mind.
This increases the complexity of the proposed package system. This was
mentioned as a possible ideal. I doubt this feature would be used
much. Please use it as you see fit.
>
> > o The package system should be independent of the compression tool
> > used. In the future new compression algorithms and tools will
> > be developed. The package system should be flexible enough to
> > not care how its files are compressed or packaged.
>
> Ditto for archive formats, encoding formats, etc. We should probably
> specify one of each as a bare minimum, choosing from those that are
> available in library format, reasonably licensed, and have acceptable
> performance (for some definition of acceptable).
>
> > o The ability to export and import the package database (currently
> > to clone systems, I rsync /usr/local, /usr/X11R6, and /var/db/pkg
> > to a new system I am installing, this saves many hours of work).
>
> Yes, perhaps even the ability to capture a currently installed package
> and turn it back into a package file. That'd be way cool for duplicating
> packages with local customizations.
>
> > > o I want to be able to remove system components, like "sendmail"
> > > and "OpenSSH".
> >
> > Ideally everything should install as a package, however that would
> > create a lot of extra work for us developers. I have yet to think of a
> > painless way to do this.
>
> Yeah, Debian has certainly showed us how NOT to do it. "Which version of
> /bin/cat do you want?"
Exactly. This had its usefulness in the mainframe world where
decisions made years ago would cost millions of dollars to undo. OTOH,
choosing a SYSV init v.s. a BSD init might be nice (just an example, no
flames please). Ultimately striking the proper balance is our goal.
Please pick and choose any ideas as you see fit.
--
Cheers, Phone: 250-387-8437
Cy Schubert Fax: 250-387-5766
Team Leader, Sun/Alpha Team Email: Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca
Open Systems Group, CITS
Ministry of Management Services
Province of BC
FreeBSD UNIX: cy@FreeBSD.org
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