Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:14:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> To: "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru> Cc: Oliver Fromme <olli@secnetix.de>, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is csh tcsh? This can be a bad thing... Message-ID: <3B8966C8.46BD4F84@mindspring.com> References: <20010826015413.C92548@dragon.nuxi.com> <200108261120.NAA07025@lurza.secnetix.de> <20010826154728.A19673@nagual.pp.ru>
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"Andrey A. Chernov" wrote:
> > When I wrote "real csh", I meant a csh which exhibits the
> > traditional behaviour and user interface ("look and feel",
> > if you prefer) of a csh. tcsh does not. Someone used to
> > work with a "real csh" simply can't be happy with tcsh,
> > especially if he has to change frequently between using
> > FreeBSD and other systems. It's a real PITA.
>
> I understand your thoughts, but I think you write them to the wrong list.
> Csh now maintained by tcsh people and known under "tcsh" name. If you want
> to restore tradition behaviour at some points, write complaints to tcsh
> developers instead.
I've been using csh since the early 80's. I can even *gasp!*
write csh scripts fairly easily, and do substitution based
changes to commands far faster than "cursor up 10 times and
edit the command".
I bitched about this, too, when the switch was being made,
but was assured that the system wide defaults and account
template defaults would be adjusted to provide traditional
behaviour on FreeBSD.
I was still grumpy about the change, but that at least was
enough to mollify me into not objecting loudly and persitantly
up to the import.
Let me get this straight, though: _now_ you are saying that
the system wide defaults and account template defaults will
be whatever the tcsh maintainers say they are, and that any
changes that the tcsh maintainers make with instantly and
magically be imported into FreeBSD?
I think there are a few logic flaws in your plan to have
people submit their gripes about the defaults to the tcsh
maintainers:
1) They set their defaults the way they like them, and
are unlikely to change.
2) A lot of the people who shut up did so on the premise
that the defaults would cause tcsh to behave like csh
when invoked with that name, and that it was the tcsh
users, NOT the csh users, who would have to change
away from the system defaults to get their desired
behaviour.
3) FreeBSD does not seem to track tcsh changes quickly
or religiously enough for a lobbying effort to really
be effective.
While we may be stuck with this bait-and-switch "upgrade", I
think his complaints are not co easily addressed. Certainly,
the "exec" complaint remains valid, in any case: it's a bug
that csh didn't have.
-- Terry
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