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Date:      Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:14:03 -0800
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@highperformance.net>
Cc:        chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Course of law (was: Islam (was: Religions (was Re: helpingvictims   of terror)))
Message-ID:  <3BDCC97B.43329BD3@mindspring.com>
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0110281056510.20586-100000@server.highperformance.net>

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"Jason C. Wells" wrote:
> > Minor correction: "military", not "civilians".  If you shoot at
> > civilians, you're a terrorist.
> 
> The US engages targets that support the enemy's industrial complex to
> reduce that nations war making ability.  The US does so knowing that these
> industrial targets are staffed by civilians.  In this case, the US
> intentionally targets civilians.

In all such cases, we have announced our intentions; if they are
civilians, then they have the choice to not staff the facility
while we are bombing it.  If they have no choice, then I would
suggest that they have been pressed into military service.


> Moreover, when the US hit Japan with nuclear weapons, the US
> indiscriminately killed many civilians without specifically targeting
> industry.

We announced the hell out of it.  We intended that they evacuate
the cities, and that the damage be structural only.


> Shall we then call the US armed forces terrorists?  If we do,
> then all of the population are terrorists because the US military
> does not even shine its boots without orders from civilians.
> Allow me to introduce myself.  I am Jason Wells, ESQ, BSME, Terrorist.

Funny, they fail to follow my orders; maybe it's just the way
I phrase them...


> One of the great fallacies of modern propoganda is that there is no war.
> There are crimes against humanity and terrorism.  We do not call anyone
> "the enemy."  For factions to shoot each other is termed merely
> "hostilities."  But to declare war is an unacceptable "act of aggression."
> 
> Another fallacy is that all ways of life and all ideologies are equally
> good.  That no one way is better than another.  Nobody wants to believe
> that evil things transpire in the world.
> 
> So we get what we have in modernity.  Death and violence with no
> conclusion.  With no conclusion and no stated military objective, whomever
> is called a terrorist is subjective to the whims of propogandizers.
> Nothing called be called true.  No action can be called justified because
> no one does evil.
> 
> I hope that the US has woke up from the relativist mindset.  I would hope
> that we all would say, these people who have attacked us are not
> justified.  At first blush it appears that we have taken a stand.

I don't believe in moral relativism, and never have.  There is
a common modern Western philosophy that permits the belief that
by virtue of somone holding an idea, that the idea therefore
has merit.  I don't believe this: I've heard many incredibly
stupid ideas that contradict evidence obtained from reproducible
experiments, and Occam's Razor makes it impossible to give these
ideas the same argumentative weight as ideas which do not have
the property of contradicting such evidence.

I think Star Trek's "Scotty" was probably on to something...


> Then I see the annointed asking of we are any better than the enemy when
> reports of innocent (whatever that means) civilians are killed are heard.

Civilians are, by definition, non-combatants.  Personally, I
don't care if they are "innocent" or not: they are still
non-combatants.  Innocence can never be judged: only guilt or
lack of guilt: that's why, in criminal trials, we find people
to be "not guilty", rather than finding them to be "innocent".


> People speaking from comfort say we had it coming for our policies.  I
> fear that there will never be a conclusion to this mess.

Hopefully, the people you speak of will not push the issue,
or they will find out what "total war" means.

Students of history will tell you that the Romans not only
defeated their enemies, they plowed salt into their fields
so that they could never sustain a population large enough
to engage in warfare against the Romans, ever again.

-- Terry

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