Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 09:38:41 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky <hps@selasky.org> To: Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@komquats.com>, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Eitan Adler <lists@eitanadler.com>, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <arch@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deprecating / Removing floppy drive support Message-ID: <43746890-e60a-5c8f-4c77-bbfe9a5a6aa9@selasky.org> In-Reply-To: <201712030616.vB36GFEg026146@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201712030616.vB36GFEg026146@slippy.cwsent.com>
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On 12/03/17 07:16, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <CANCZdfrYdQTtjZJ_+jSVr25wjAZXd-+4atSaeT5ahfprbtXHWw@mail.gmail.c > om> > , Warner Losh writes: >> --001a1144e7002bf7b0055f684ec8 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@komquats.com> >> wrote: >> >>> bms@ has given me USB floppy formatting code which I'd planned to merge >>> >> into fdformat but considering the underlying devices are so very different >>> it would be a difficult marriage. I'd be willing to support a ufdformat >>> instead. >> >> >> I'm keen on getting that into the tree. I have a ufd device and a need to >> use it from time to time. If nothing else, I can be a reviewer of the code. >> Is ufd working for you? > > It does work. My todo was to merge ufdformat into fdformat but as I said > they are different enough that I need to work out how best to merge them. > Having said that, now that there's discussion of removing fdc(4) maybe it's > best to simply use ufdformat separately from fdformat that when we have the > inclination to remove fdc(4), which may be very soon now -- it would be > much less messy. I'm open to either option. > >> >> >>>> >>>> Normally, I'd argue we might want to have a release where it's >>> deprecated, >>>> but it already was unusable in 11, and barely usable in 10 and has been a >>>> shadow of its former self for much longer than that. >>> >>> The reason to keep some form of floppy support, eder fd or ufd is for the >>> purpose of copying (dd) floppy media into image files for use with >>> virtualbox or bhyve VMs. -- (One could say the same for CD and DVD drives. >>> My new laptop at $JOB has no CD/DVD drive.) I digress. I think the ability >>> to copy media to image files for VMs might be a reason to keep some form of >>> support fd or ufd. >> >> >> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here... > > What I'm saying is that maintaining some form of fdc support whether it be > in fdc(4) or a USB floppy the ability to dd floppy images for subsequent > use in a VM would be desirable. I'm thinking of one example brought to my > attention about a month ago where a person I know needed to copy old floppy > disks to images on his hard drive in order to install an old sewing machine > application in a virtualbox VM running Windows. > > Tangentially speaking, we could make the same case for CD and DVD drives > not too many years from now... > > Personally, I don't care much (well maybe just a little) if fdc(4) itself > is removed however I think we need some kind of support, which USB fd can > supply if or when fdc(4) is removed. Maybe we should deprecate in 12 and > remove in 13? > > Hi, I think as long as you can read and write USB floppy drives under FreeBSD, this change is OK. Even though floppies are old-tech they are still important: https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/05/25/2054255/us-military-uses-8-inch-floppy-disks-to-coordinate-nuclear-force-operations And from time to time we see criminal cases popping up with crazy people using old C64's with floppy disks. I would feel bad if removing support for floppies from FreeBSD would mean you would depend on a Windows installation to read such disks. Further, keep this change two-step. First remove the code from GENERIC. Then wait a year and see if anyone complains. Then delete the source code. --HPS --HPS
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