Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2026 16:13:28 +0100 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=C5=82a?= <trasz@freebsd.org> Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Why I am retiring from contributing to FreeBSD" Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSijSw09JWedES1ppECTqftP-eMOAwiHVpj_esRbTWLAXSA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <aVOUXGJsnyae4-ND@pustaq.ultrahub>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] >Edward Tomasz Napierala : >The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not,that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t even bother answering emails at this point. Is this a good attitude ? Maybe he only wants to have a constructive dialogue with them. Just for the sake of my curiosity. If they don't want to talk,isn't this a negation of the A denial of the democratic spirit, because they deprive him of his freedom of expression by countering their freedom to remain silent. It would seem democratic, because everyone has exercised their right. However, the denial of constructive dialogue among themselves deprives the community of some of the founding characteristics of democracy. One: the possibility of growth and improvement. Two: transparency: the ability to bring to light any fragile positions taken by someone, always with a view to collectively safeguarding the project. Furthermore, I would like to know what other space he has to express his thoughts if the primary one is denied. Don't the rules establish the possibility for someone to escalate unresolved issues by bringing them to the attention of an external council ? Thanks. On Tue, Dec 30, 2025 at 9:59 AM Edward Tomasz Napierała <trasz@freebsd.org> wrote: > Hi, I’m trasz@; over past two decades I wrote the iSCSI stack, > and autofs(4), and rctl(8), and ZFS ACLs, and reroot, and some other > bits, working for FreeBSD Foundation and now University of Cambridge. > Currently I’m in a weird situation where FreeBSD core team (likely) > won’t kick me out until I release the email archive documenting their > mishandling of a certain incident, including them lying to my face > to discourage me from speaking up about it. > > Or, they could kick me out for protesting against genocide in a way > that hurt core team member’s income streams. Or because a YouTuber > they like asked them to. We’ll know the official excuse once it > happens :) > > This email is about something else though. Normally this would barely > raise any eyebrows, but given current circumstances it deserves closer > look: seems like core@ scared away another long time contributor: > > https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=50102.0 > > The background - record of someone’s hurt feelings - can be found at: > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20250616201452/https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=280701 > > Note that I don’t know the situation and so I’m not definitely claiming > core is in the wrong here - just that it would be naive to blindly trust > they are still doing the right thing, given recent history. > > The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not, > that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t > even bother answering emails at this point. > > Another committer declared that “the proper way is to elect better core > team next time”. And so there is this fundamental problem that we grew > attached to larping democracy with core elections. Real democracy depends > on being able to criticise the elected team, which in FreeBSD is not > currently allowed; any discussion on this topic gets immediately squashed. > Democracy also requires transparency, which is something that we used > to have, at least betwen core and developers, until the current core team > “forgot about it”. This whole mechanism is fundamentally broken, yet > we refuse to acknowledge that and instead continue the cargo cult. > > So, go read the links above, then ask core@ what happened there. > Sorry I have to do it like this in public, but my previous, more private, > attempts have all been ignored. > > > -- Mario. [-- Attachment #2 --] <div dir="ltr"><div>>Edward Tomasz Napierala : </div><div><br></div><div>>The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not,that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t even bother answering emails at this point.</div><div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Is this a good attitude ? Maybe he only wants to have a constructive dialogue with them. Just for the sake of my curiosity. If they don't want to talk,isn't this a negation of the <span class="gmail-HwtZe" lang="en"><span class="gmail-jCAhz"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">A denial of the democratic spirit, because they deprive him of his freedom of expression by countering their freedom to remain silent.</span></span> <span class="gmail-jCAhz"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">It would seem democratic, because everyone has exercised their right.</span></span> <span class="gmail-jCAhz"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">However, the denial of constructive dialogue among themselves deprives the community of some of the founding characteristics of democracy.</span></span> <span class="gmail-jCAhz"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">One: the possibility of growth and improvement.</span></span> <span class="gmail-jCAhz gmail-ChMk0b"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">Two: transparency: the ability to bring to light any fragile positions taken by someone, always with a view to collectively safeguarding the project.</span></span> <span class="gmail-jCAhz gmail-ChMk0b"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">Furthermore, I would like to know what other space he has to express his thoughts if the primary one is denied.</span></span> <span class="gmail-jCAhz gmail-ChMk0b"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">Don't the rules establish the possibility for someone to escalate unresolved issues by bringing them to the attention of an external council ?</span></span></span><div class="gmail-lRu31" dir="ltr"><div class="gmail-OvtS8d"><span></span><span class="gmail-LdhArd"></span><span></span></div><div class="gmail-NQSJo"><br></div><div class="gmail-NQSJo">Thanks.</div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 30, 2025 at 9:59 AM Edward Tomasz Napierała <<a href="mailto:trasz@freebsd.org">trasz@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi, I’m trasz@; over past two decades I wrote the iSCSI stack,<br> and autofs(4), and rctl(8), and ZFS ACLs, and reroot, and some other<br> bits, working for FreeBSD Foundation and now University of Cambridge.<br> Currently I’m in a weird situation where FreeBSD core team (likely)<br> won’t kick me out until I release the email archive documenting their<br> mishandling of a certain incident, including them lying to my face<br> to discourage me from speaking up about it.<br> <br> Or, they could kick me out for protesting against genocide in a way<br> that hurt core team member’s income streams. Or because a YouTuber<br> they like asked them to. We’ll know the official excuse once it<br> happens :)<br> <br> This email is about something else though. Normally this would barely<br> raise any eyebrows, but given current circumstances it deserves closer<br> look: seems like core@ scared away another long time contributor:<br> <br> <a href="https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=50102.0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=50102.0</a><br>; <br> The background - record of someone’s hurt feelings - can be found at:<br> <br> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250616201452/https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=280701" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20250616201452/https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=280701</a><br>; <br> Note that I don’t know the situation and so I’m not definitely claiming<br> core is in the wrong here - just that it would be naive to blindly trust<br> they are still doing the right thing, given recent history.<br> <br> The problem, as I see it, is that core@ has learned, consciously or not,<br> that they can just ignore the developer community altogether. They don’t<br> even bother answering emails at this point.<br> <br> Another committer declared that “the proper way is to elect better core<br> team next time”. And so there is this fundamental problem that we grew<br> attached to larping democracy with core elections. Real democracy depends<br> on being able to criticise the elected team, which in FreeBSD is not<br> currently allowed; any discussion on this topic gets immediately squashed.<br> Democracy also requires transparency, which is something that we used<br> to have, at least betwen core and developers, until the current core team<br> “forgot about it”. This whole mechanism is fundamentally broken, yet<br> we refuse to acknowledge that and instead continue the cargo cult.<br> <br> So, go read the links above, then ask core@ what happened there.<br> Sorry I have to do it like this in public, but my previous, more private,<br> attempts have all been ignored.<br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Mario.<br></div>home | help
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