Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:39:58 -0800 From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk <m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com> To: Daniel Feenberg <feenberg@nber.org> Cc: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anybody use the Dell 3010?? Message-ID: <CAOgwaMt%2Bx5dfoMJbTiaGHQ9zf%2BA=0zXgU9konphBd0-g3bX6Ww@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1211190745270.21594@nber6> References: <20121118085838.GA7267@ethic.thought.org> <50AA00BA.1040007@bnrlabs.com> <20121119114306.ff21baa9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20121119060029.76b85120@scorpio> <20121119121832.de248106.freebsd@edvax.de> <Pine.GSO.4.64.1211190745270.21594@nber6>
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On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:55 AM, Daniel Feenberg <feenberg@nber.org> wrote: > > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Polytropon wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:00:29 -0500, Jerry wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:43:06 +0100 >>> Polytropon articulated: >>> >>> Allow me to provide just one example: >>>> >>>> More in the series of bizarre UEFI bugs >>>> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/**20187.html<http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html>; >>>> >>> >>> That doesn't appear to be a bug. It appears that the code is doing >>> exactly what the designer wanted it to do. At best this was an >>> oversight by the designer; at worse just plain incompetence. >>> >> >> That's quite possible. We've seen poorly implemented ACPI >> behaviour in "modern" BIOS as well, or manufacturers >> intendedly going "their way" to limit hardware in what >> it can do or what it will support. >> >> It's just my fear that UEFI won't do better per se, and >> that lazy or incompetent people will screw it up, and >> make it worse. >> >> The article mentions "legacy boot" to restore a somewhat >> "normal" behaviour... >> >> > The only way for FreeBSD (or Linux, for that matter) to survive > in a world where hardware vendors care only about Windows, is > to make sure that FreeBSD only depends upon features that Windows > uses. If a hardware or firmware specification requires feature X, > but Windows doesn't use feature X, then vendors won't test feature > X, and FreeBSD can't depend on it being functional. So it shouldn't > be required by FreeBSD. It can be used, provided it isn't required. > In this case it may mean that FreeBSD must identify itself as > Windows, just as all browsers identify themselves as IE. > The above paragraph is completely meaningless , because neither *BSD , nor Linux is a marginal operating system . Please see http://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ Select from this "Operating System Family" where in world's 500 super computers , Windows is on ONLY 3 computers , the rest is almost Linux 469 , Unix 20 , BSD-based 1 computers and others . http://www.asus.com/Static_WebPage/OS_Compatibility/ http://www.asus.com/websites/global/aboutasus/OS/Linux.pdf contains Linux distributions supported in ASUS desktop boards . Some trade marked servers excluded , Linux and *BSD run on many server hardware . By not considering these and then saying that *BSD and Linux should follow foot steps of some one is not acceptable . The problem is there is NO any compatible hardware list for FreeBSD maintained continuously . Another problem is vendors are not supplying manuals about their hardware for whatever the reason is which is making to write drivers for them nearly impossible . In such cases , the users should seek compatible hardware without entrapped into proprietary to one operating system hardware . > > You might say this was "enabling" vendors to provide buggy systems, > but as long as FreeBSD is small it does not have the power to affect > vendors. Insisting on correctness from vendors has no effect when > it is FreeBSD doing the insisting. It is only when FreeBSD is more > widely used that it can adopt the role of enforcing standards on > vendors, and it can not become widely used if it starts insisting > on standards prematurely. > > daniel feenberg > > > >> >> -- >> Polytropon >> Magdeburg, Germany >> Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 >> Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... >> > Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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