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Date:      Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:38:24 -0700 (PDT)
From:      "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
To:        Sysadmin <danlaw@rust.net>
Cc:        Blaine Minazzi <bminazzi@denverweb.net>, isp@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...)
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.95.970422125716.12008B-100000@harlie.bfd.com>
In-Reply-To: <335D02D0.1607@rust.net>

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On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote:

> What country is this you live in?  In the United States, we have civil
> liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, 
> of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't
> see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police
> state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information.

That's right, we live in a country where BBS operators get all of their
eqipment siezed because someone managed to download a file from the BBS,
that while legal in the state the BBS was in, was illegal where it was
downloaded. Totally different situation, guess California isn't part of
the United States. Or it all gets seized as evidence, and returned several
months later, when the DOJ realizes that it just plain blew it. In one
case, the file that caused the whole issue had been uploaded by the
investigating officer less than an hour prior to the bust.  But we've got
protection against abuse of power, now don't we.

Anyone that thinks that the government at any level is going to treat
ISP's any better than BBS operators needs to examine very closely why they
think this way.  Depending on how you read it, the Communications
Indecency Act could easily be used against ISP's, even for something as
simple as news.  Remember, the law wasn't drafted by people that actually
understood USENET News.

Not to mention the fact that what he's describing here is only an
expansion of the property seizure laws already in effect in the good old
U.S. of A.  Read up on it, or at least watch for the 60 minutes episode on
the topic.  People every day get cash seized simply because it was
suspicious that they had that much cash on them.  Charges are never filed
against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of
insufficient evidence.  But does that mean the people get the seized
property back?  Nope, because the case against the property is not the
same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the
right of due process.

To all the innocent bystanders in this, I'm sorry for venting like this,
I'm not a conspiracy nut or an activist of any sort, but anyone who isn't
concerned about this hasn't paid attention to how the government pursues
things that it thinks are wrong.  One of my biggest gripes with the
Key Escrow "privacy protection" bill was that circumventing due process
only has a penalty if what you do with the keys is illegal.  So, as long
as they feel good about the results, there will be no penalty.

O.K., so we're not in a police state, but this isn't the land of the free
anymore.  We've given up freedom for security, and there's a rather famous
quote on that one.




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