Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 19:26:16 -0500 From: Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> To: FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <B7C2E20B-408E-4AEB-B3E1-785981995C19@kicp.uchicago.edu> In-Reply-To: <CAGBxaX=A0FkFW35VK6t8YNxHVVT0XvfCBeRMBN1BnqojwVv7Fw@mail.gmail.com> References: <mailman.5421.1591424554.4503.freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> <a7f9a8b5-29b1-c083-e82d-92192c2f3c9e@defert.com> <CAGBxaX=B3ieSMnFyQ__NyQ=OVoz53c06RVsa-jap6GR6r0Y7Ew@mail.gmail.com> <C49F5FB7-37F5-4A49-ADA2-16490089CFDC@kicp.uchicago.edu> <CAGBxaXmVAMv12B09XbCGPw6=NBXiyzKOz2w9j1tut-x9t8NEQg@mail.gmail.com> <CAEC73915Obkz2aNme3LZu6%2BJF3FLQER813-8%2BLFg9PKMMet3Lg@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaX=A0FkFW35VK6t8YNxHVVT0XvfCBeRMBN1BnqojwVv7Fw@mail.gmail.com>
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> On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> = wrote: >=20 > On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 2:48 PM Donald Wilde <dwilde1@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 >> On 6/7/20, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Valeri Galtsev = <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu >>>=20 >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 6, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Aryeh Friedman = <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 5:06 AM Vincent DEFERT <20.100@defert.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> My advice: NEVER, ever, learn Java, for if you do, you'll never = want >>>>>> to >>>>>> use another language and that could be a handicap in a new >> developer's >>>>>> career. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I switched 10 years ago to Java after 15 years of C/C++ (and an = odd >>>>> assortment of other languages) and certainly agree with the idea = of >> not >>>>> wanting to use another language. Think of Java as the family = SUV, >>>>> not >>>>> particularly fast and nimble when you need high performance or = very >> low >>>>> level work but what is it good for nothing is better (rock solid = code >>>> that >>>>> doesn't require the above). That being said you should learn it = but >>>> learn >>>>> it with other languages. >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> To the OP: >>>>=20 >>>> As someone already said in this thread: Java is proprietary, and = Oracle >>>> who bought out Sun Microsystems (the creator of Java) started = charging >>>> money end users of applications written in Java. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>> Where on Earth did you get the idea that Oracle charges/gets = royalties >> for >>> 3rd application in Java!?!?!??!?!? I have *NEVER* paid a dime for = any >>> application and/or anything else written in Java (nor is there any >> language >>> in the legal material that comes with the language and/or any of the >> tools >>> that would even allow for a royalty)... the language spec is = completely >>> open and anyone can write a compiler or a JVM (all the specs are >> completely >>> available)..... IBM has made one so have a few other people = including >> GNU. >>>=20 >> You can use java 8 for your own purposes but Oracle's license >> agreement on their website clearly states that only up until Java 7 = is >> it truly free. :-( This change occurred several years ago now. >>=20 >> I don't have time to get the citation to support Valeri's assertion, >> but it is true. >>=20 >=20 > Then Wikipedia MUST be wrong? A direct quote from there article on = OpenJDK > (1st paragraph): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK >=20 > "OpenJDK (Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open-source > implementation of the Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE).[1] It = is > the result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The = implementation > is licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) version 2 = with a > linking exception. Were it not for the GPL linking exception, = components > that linked to the Java class library would be subject to the terms of = the > GPL license. OpenJDK is the official reference implementation of Java = SE > since version 7.[2][3][4]" >=20 > And from the the OpenJDK web site itself: >=20 > "Will Oracle change the OpenJDK licensing model? >=20 > No. The OpenJDK Community continues to thrive with contributions from > Oracle, as well as other companies, researchers, and individuals, and = the > GPL-based licensing model is one large part of this success. Oracle = has no > plans to change it." https://openjdk.java.net/faq/ >=20 > As to the language spec license and jvm spec license: >=20 > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se14/html/spec-license.html > (Apache derived license due to needing the patent infringement = clause). > [There are no patents that pertain to Java per se] >=20 This is just general thought not addressed to anyone in particular. For the moment it indeed is true that openjdk is free. While Sun = Microsystems was behind Java I was quite certain there will be no = changes neither for end user use of Java, not for openjdk. Sun = Microsystem did have that reputation (at least, in my book). Oracle has = different reputation (again, in my book). And charging end users of java = applications was not a surprise for me. I am not saying openjdk will = have the same faith, but if that happens, it will not come as a surprise = for me. Now, it is everybody=E2=80=99s own judgement people should rely on in = estimate of how useful their skills in programming in Java may be in = some future to come. They still may be valuable even if you shift your = field out of open source domain, so do your own thinking. Just my 2 cents, as always. Valeri >=20 > --=20 > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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