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Date:      Mon, 27 May 2019 19:23:28 -0700
From:      Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>
To:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        Rainer Duffner <rainer@ultra-secure.de>, "Conrad E. Meyer" <cem@freebsd.org>, voidanix@420blaze.it, freebsd-current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Disabling COMPAT_FREEBSD4/5/6/7/9 as a default kernel option
Message-ID:  <24F2196F-A5A9-4BBA-B4D4-D6721B42A7C8@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfp3ORMJ%2BW6EHswn4AHQWtsRk4wWRHmZO-nn5HEvFB-SYg@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <ff7bfe10b7953d066e0f087b8d422b89@420blaze.it> <eaaf7d3d03dbbee0bebd2769d25fcd54@ultra-secure.de> <CAG6CVpXEixt1Y%2BLAGmKBGRzo3i%2BKYxwSLzh24eLyxtb54Fj_Tw@mail.gmail.com> <2d16a2a9ac5c090f196674d40d0cb398@ultra-secure.de> <3E7C1D63-996E-4AA0-A0A4-455B996BB9D6@gmail.com> <CANCZdfp3ORMJ%2BW6EHswn4AHQWtsRk4wWRHmZO-nn5HEvFB-SYg@mail.gmail.com>

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> On May 27, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>=20
> On Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:49 PM Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com =
<mailto:yaneurabeya@gmail.com>> wrote:
>=20
> > On May 27, 2019, at 08:27, rainer@ultra-secure.de =
<mailto:rainer@ultra-secure.de> wrote:
> >=20
> > Am 2019-05-27 17:05, schrieb Conrad Meyer:
> >> Hi Rainier,
> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 7:47 AM <rainer@ultra-secure.de =
<mailto:rainer@ultra-secure.de>> wrote:
> >>> I have a 32bit FreeBSD 6 binary that I'll need for a bit until the
> >>> department who is technically responsible for the service gets =
around
> >>> redoing that service.
> >> Even if this proposal is approved, it would only affect 13+.  You
> >> could still run your FreeBSD 6 binary in a 32-bit 12 VM in a 13+
> >> Bhyve.  But do consider lighting a fire under whatever department
> >> thinks it's ok to deploy like that :-).
> >> Take care,
> >> Conrad
> >=20
> >=20
> > I thought so, too.
> >=20
> > I don't really want to run the abandonware of a RADIUS-server any =
longer than necessary (as absurd as that sounds).
> >=20
> > It's also running a recursive nameserver (previously also =
authoritative) that is still hard-coded in CPE and computers behind =
firewalls.
> >=20
> > I first wanted to virtualize it (it's not a big problem) - but this =
way the problem is just dragged out: "But it still works, does it and we =
have no time".
> >=20
> > Everybody now knows that the clock is ticking, literally.
> >=20
> > Oh, I also remember George Neville-Neil talking about a - what - =
FreeBSD 4 binary that a certain search-engine had lost the sources for =
and was running on FreeBSD 7 with compat4.
> > (We also have a client who literally begged us to leave a decade-old =
Solaris box running through 2019 and half of 2020 so they could continue =
to do their bookkeeping on a home-grown java-app that I suspect they, =
too have lost the sources to...). It's running jdk15 and getting that =
thing to run under anything semi-decent doesn't seem to have worked-out =
too well.
> > So, people pray for the best and don't prepare for the worst.
> >=20
> >=20
> > Other stuff I can think of:
> > - very old Netbackup-Clients (like 5-series), though I doubt they =
still work on recent releases, because 7.71 (last official version and =
intended for FreeBSD 11) stopped working on FreeBSD12, sadly)
> > - certain pre-compiled VMWare Tools Modules? Pre open-source-tools =
(I can never make up my mind if it's VMWare-open-Tools or =
Open-VMWare-Tools or something different)
> >=20
> >=20
> > What ever people do with COMPAT4-9 - it's bordering the =
pathological.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99ll counter the OP=E2=80=99s suggestion a bit:
>=20
> It would be nice if the compat options were modularized and printed =
out an EOS warning when loaded, so the user was aware that the modules =
are not supported by FreeBSD, in terms of security and whatnot.
>=20
> How is that relevant? They just control system calls, not any userland =
libraries that might or might not have a security exposure. Plus, if not =
done right you either startle the horses for no reason, or you run the =
risk of a console DoS if you print something on each system call=E2=80=A6

My point was to suggest basically controlling the syscall table (like =
linux does for instance). If a compat module was loaded, it would print =
out the warning. Not on each syscall entry. That would be insanity as =
far as performance degradation would be concerned :/.
-Enji




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