Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 08:23:33 +0300 From: Daniel Braniss <danny@cs.huji.ac.il> To: Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> Cc: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Core Team Response to Controversial Social Media Posts Message-ID: <00144DCD-7DB6-475A-9719-D5B714B84DC8@cs.huji.ac.il> In-Reply-To: <CADWvR2i5XG5_AmaAW1wHWafFpSG5oY6O3BqeTn1=7FYdhQ%2BV-w@mail.gmail.com> References: <868svf6r05.fsf@phe.ftfl.ca> <CADWvR2hekmiTeUxoJ=AOstgbWbVpjs6YYzx6syVN9kVcR3bfHw@mail.gmail.com> <CADWvR2i9jic44r4CbmA=rTn-Ej=9Ex439gUO7syZfj_6jmygzg@mail.gmail.com> <e5586cc9-672e-414e-9d63-2c3df50b6abd@www.fastmail.com> <CADWvR2hx%2BYbf5GxpwhjzeX_9Zkk0h_Gc2ftC7nypyuNAJP14=A@mail.gmail.com> <ed052186-1de9-1a7a-1c18-e3b57fdeb96c@gmail.com> <CANCZdfo6HrPdKeWHgZt5-2agb8deXETjmf7HNYO7Rf3ZnDWRZA@mail.gmail.com> <CADWvR2h9DWY05X2FSgFYVKcBR3EVhient9QmEjrVB00U9eWstw@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfqyjK6WHHOY0Jd7ThYaMKTVELNftMADwfgWdQaf0KcDBg@mail.gmail.com> <CADWvR2i5XG5_AmaAW1wHWafFpSG5oY6O3BqeTn1=7FYdhQ%2BV-w@mail.gmail.com>
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BIKE SHED SYNDROME? danny PS: intentionally top posting :-) > On 19 May 2019, at 22:43, Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> wrote: > > On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 20:16, Warner Losh wrote: >> >> On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 11:34 AM Igor Mozolevsky wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 17:54, Warner Losh wrote: > > <snip> > >>>> Yes. There will always be limits, just like in real life. You can't tell >>>> fire in a theater, and claim freedom of expression, for example. >>> >>> <snip> >>> >>> While that is an often cited example, it is rather tenuous as far as >>> "freedom of expression" is concerned: yelling "Fire!" in a crowded >>> theatre is by no measure an expression of one's views, thoughts, or >>> opinions. At the same time, the invocation of a CoC ctte review is >>> triggered by precisely the latter. >> >> >> It is a difficult problem. The project needs to protect itself and its >> members from harm. Sometimes, though rarely, that harm >> comes from expressing ones views in a way that's so extreme >> it causes real and lasting problems either for the cohesiveness >> of the project, or its effect on the project's reputation is so >> extreme, people can't separate the two and stop using it. There >> needs to be a review mechanism for cases that are extreme. > > It's very difficult to subscribe to that view! The first problem you > encounter is "what is an objectively extreme expression"--what is > extreme to one, might be entirely common place to another. I'm sure > whatever religious book one takes there is a passage that goes along > the lines of "judge people by their deeds not by their words"... > Secondly, the greatest legal minds in the US wrangled with that and > came up with one answer: *ANY* expression is protected for otherwise > it would not be "freedom." > > >> At the same time, reviews are detrimental if they are triggered >> for 'ordinary' conduct: they take time and energy away from >> the project that could otherwise be spent on making things >> better. The trick is to have any such review reflect the broad >> consensus within the project of what's clearly out of bounds, >> as well as having a fair and just response by the board in >> the cases that require some action. > > > Agreement by consensus is most dangerous, for, usually, the loudest > wins because people with no backbone fall in-line; the best > explanation of democracy I have ever heard was: "two wolves and a > sheep deciding what to have for dinner!" > > > -- > Igor M. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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