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Date:      Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0500 (EST)
From:      Christopher Sedore <cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu>
To:        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?)
Message-ID:  <Pine.SOL.3.95.980309090330.24074B-100000@rodan.syr.edu>
In-Reply-To: <19980309133636.38119@freebie.lemis.com>

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On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:

> On Mon,  9 March 1998 at  2:27:50 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
> >> Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a
> >> Saturn rocket up the ass.  When compared to real solutions like SoftPC
> >> from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for
> >> the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people
> >> forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be.
> >
> > I agree with Jordan on this one.  Even quadrupling my time estimates,
> > I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32
> > capable of running MicroSoft Office.  The 5 coders would have to be
> > *serious* about getting the job done.  The WINE project, though well
> > intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me.  8-(.
> 
> OK.  This agrees with what I've seen.  Maybe they're just not the
> world's best hackers.  Is anybody interested in doing better?  What
> are the real problems with doing it right?  It seems to me that the
> most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is
> still finite.  Comments?
> 

Microsoft "updates" the API too frequently.  Each service pack adds a new
function, or a slightly different behaviour to an existing one.

If I may offer my opinion, I agree with the poster who noted that what we
need is an alternative.  In the US, we have a Microsoft monopoly, but MS
is going to have much more trouble in India, China, former SU, etc--they
simply do not have the capital to invest in MS technologies.

I'd like to see an lightweight X11 replacement (eg photon), and apps to
run with it.  A FreeBSD that ran (with GUI and some apps) on an 8MB 486-66 
would be a killer.  Cost is not an impossible barrier--we need to achieve
$30/seat for OS plus apps.

The other side of this problem is turnover costs.  During the next US
economic downturn, I wonder if companies will continue to ride the 3 year
hardware replacement bandwagon.  I know that my employer (Syracuse U)
cannot do it now.  Companies have had extra thick margins and thus been
able to afford replacement schedules which are a little silly.

The other piece of this that's scary is Microsoft's licensing strategy. 
They've (at least for large institutions) moved away from the traditional
notion of selling you software--they sell you the licenses plus
"maintenance" to get you the next version.  You wind up with a computing
environment that costs you $100-$150 per seat annually for software.  Add
in $500/year (3 year turnover) for hardware, and you're talking about
$600-$650 per seat per year.

Some large companies could afford to fund the development of the OS and
the apps in-house for what they're currently paying MS for software.

Very much IMHO, what's needed is a refined vision, about $1-2m in venture
capital, and a nice quiet building out in the country.  (I like to code
where the population density is <20 people per square mile :) 

-Chris



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