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Date:      Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:51:04 +0200
From:      Matthieu Volat <mazhe@alkumuna.eu>
To:        Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org>
Cc:        freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers
Message-ID:  <20181017195104.1e2ac9ad@gramr.alkumuna.eu>
In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net>
References:  <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net>

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On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:16 +0000
Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org> wrote:

> >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< =20
>=20
> FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md)
> outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12
> and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and
> improving the network stack.  We have discussed this within the
> core team and intend to move forward as proposed.  We are solictiting
> feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal.
>=20
> The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is:
>=20
> ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn,
> ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe
>=20
> The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is:
>=20
> dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl
>=20
> The criteria for exception are:
>  - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the
>    support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023).
>    - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be
>      deemed satisfy the "popular"
>      requirement.
>  - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usabl=
e.
>  - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.)
>=20
> Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list.
>=20
> The full FCP-0101 is included below.
>=20
> -- Brooks
>=20
> ---
> authors: Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org>
> state: feedback
> ---
>=20
> # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers
>=20
> Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before
> FreeBSD 13.
>=20
> ## Problem Statement
>=20
> Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to
> improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded
> 32-bit compatibility.  For example, the author has edited every single
> NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`)
> interfaces.  We could improve this situation by converting drivers to
> iflib, but each additional driver takes work.
>=20
> 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today
> and we have a significant number of them in the tree.  The ones that
> are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be
> removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development.
>=20
> For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded
> systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual
> machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices.  We wish to
> retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while
> removing support for uncommon ones.  With a few exceptions these
> drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD
> 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024).
>=20
> ## Proposed Solution
>=20
> We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular.  This
> will entail:
>  - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable.
>  - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and
>    attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes
>    to FreeBSD 12.
>  - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind
>    freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion.
>  - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete depreca=
ted
>    devices.
>=20
> Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception
> list and update this document as required.  For a device to be placed on
> the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria:
>  - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the
>    support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023).
>    - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be
>      deemed satisfy the "popular"
>      requirement.
>  - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usabl=
e.
>  - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.)
>=20
> ### Exceptions to removal
>=20
> Device | Reason
> -------|-------------------------------------------------
> ffec   | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards
> fxp    | Popular device long recommended by the project.
> dc     | Popular device for CardBus card.
> hme    | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms.
> le     | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64.
> sis    | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641.
> vr     | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards.
> xl     | Popular device for CardBus card.
>=20
> Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round.
>=20
> ### Device to be removed
>=20
> ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn,
> ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe
>=20
> ## Final Disposition
>=20
> TBD

Would it be possible to set a wiki page/section in 12 that display the curr=
ent status of removal of those devices? That might be easier for people to =
look at their hardware actual state rather than try to trace every answer t=
o this thread...

Thanks a lot!

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