Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Sat, 13 Jun 2015 14:40:29 -0400
From:      Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@xcllnt.net>
To:        Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org>
Cc:        David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Alexander Kabaev <kabaev@gmail.com>, Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@FreeBSD.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls
Message-ID:  <860017ED-D754-450C-865D-2D81A30C2212@xcllnt.net>
In-Reply-To: <557C661F.8080104@freebsd.org>
References:  <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> <C88CB169-12FE-4692-92AA-5C7D41BB61DF@FreeBSD.org> <557C661F.8080104@freebsd.org>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help

--Apple-Mail=_232E492D-1735-4CD6-BD11-521E20E6382F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8


> On Jun 13, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme =
that
>>> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like =
systems
>>> completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're
>>> well on our way.
>> There is a lot of heckling and unhelpful hyperbole in this thread.  =
Reading the xo_emit format strings takes a little bit of getting used =
to, but the same is true of printf - it=E2=80=99s just that we=E2=80=99re =
already used to printf.  The structured parts (xo_open_container, =
xo_close_container and friends) are clear and descriptive.  The changes =
are fairly invasive, but the benefits are also very large for anyone who =
is wanting to automate administration of FreeBSD systems.
>>=20
>> If you have suggestions for how the libxo APIs could be improved, =
then please let us know - Phil is very reception to suggestions but =
objections along the lines of =E2=80=98it=E2=80=99s not what I=E2=80=99m =
used to and changes sometimes break things so we should never have =
changes=E2=80=99 are not helpful.
>>=20
>> David
>>=20
> I made a suggestion for an alternate path in the previous thread.
>=20
> =
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-March/054855.html=

>=20
> but I have a job and kids so I can't object if I'm not listened to..
> (no time to actually follow my own advice and produce working code.)

Not wanting to change all programs and instead write grammars for all
programs seems like a worse solution. The scope is the same (same
number of programs), but since the grammars and programs are two
distinct entities, it=E2=80=99s actually fairly hard to make sure both =
are
changed at the same time when so needed. It=E2=80=99s also not at all a
given that screen scrubbing is always easy enough to do that it
isn=E2=80=99t causing some sort of problems in specific situations. If
one wants to output JSON, XML and HTML you find that screen
scrubbing doesn=E2=80=99t even give you all the information you need. =
It=E2=80=99s
very natural to come to the conclusion that it=E2=80=99s easier to get =
the
data from the source and skip the entire non-lossless translation
phase.

--
Marcel Moolenaar
marcel@xcllnt.net


--Apple-Mail=_232E492D-1735-4CD6-BD11-521E20E6382F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
	name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org
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=+X5U
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Apple-Mail=_232E492D-1735-4CD6-BD11-521E20E6382F--



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?860017ED-D754-450C-865D-2D81A30C2212>