Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:21:55 +0100 From: Ceri Davies <ceri@submonkey.net> To: Tom Rhodes <trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Cc: grog@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD (was: cvs commit: src Makefile README) Message-ID: <20060610112155.GF23618@submonkey.net> In-Reply-To: <20060609203802.7cbdf70f.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> References: <200606070333.k573XmRc067920@repoman.freebsd.org> <200606071051.47070.jhb@freebsd.org> <20060608004803.GK81573@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200606090853.48604.jhb@freebsd.org> <20060609203802.7cbdf70f.trhodes@FreeBSD.org>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 08:38:02PM -0400, Tom Rhodes wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 08:53:47 -0400
> John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org> wrote:
>=20
> > On Wednesday 07 June 2006 20:48, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 7 June 2006 at 10:51:45 -0400, John Baldwin wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday 06 June 2006 23:33, Tom Rhodes wrote:
> > > >> trhodes 2006-06-07 03:33:48 UTC
> > > >>
> > > >> FreeBSD src repository
> > > >>
> > > >> Modified files:
> > > >> . Makefile README
> > > >> Log:
> > > >> Simply running ``make world'' will bomb unless you dig up the
> > > >> undocumented HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD variable and set it. Note it
> > > >> here so the blow up will not really be a surprise to people who
> > > >> read.
> > > >
> > > > I thought the obfuscation was intentional as very few people should
> > > > be doing a 'make world' without a custom DESTDIR these days.
> > >=20
> > > Then there's no reason not to document it.
> > >=20
> > > Warning: FORCE_ROOT_INSTALL can render your system unusable by
> > > overwriting existing configuration files. Do not use it unless you
> > > are completely aware of the consequences.
> > >=20
> > > And yes, a descriptive name like FORCE_ROOT_INSTALL, not
> > > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD.
> >=20
> > Describing it would subvert the intended obfuscation.
> >=20
> > > > Certainly people new to FreeBSD shouldn't be doing it; only those
> > > > with the command hardwired into their brains. We've had
> > > > buildworld/installworld since 2.2.5 (or 2.2.6) I think as I've only
> > > > had to do a 'make world' once to go from 2.2.2 to 2.2.6. :)
> > >=20
> > > FWIW, that's when the rot set in IMO. One of the nice things about
> > > FreeBSD *used* to be that to upgrade the system you just needed to do
> > > "make world". Now you have a lot more work.
> > >=20
> > > The only justification for this regression is that it's really
> > > difficult to get everything right. But that's a bug, not a feature.
> >=20
> > No, the justification is that 'make world' completely ignores the kerne=
l and=20
> > only handles userland, and an operating system is both a kernel and a=
=20
> > userland and that users should update those together. If you as a deve=
loper=20
> > want to use make world you can either run the two commands back to back=
or=20
> > you can put I_REALLY_KNOW_WHAT_IM_DOING_AND_WANT_TO_HOSE_MY_MACHINE in=
=20
> > make.conf or something. However, developers wanting to do this are in =
the=20
> > _VAST_ minority and I'd much rather cater to the other 99% of the world.
>=20
> Hmmm. Perhaps a warning like this and then kill the
> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD target and related docs?
I don't like that. Our users should now be in the habit of not running
"make world", so I don't really see the win. They have needed to do
this since July 2004 (revisions 1.302 and 1.303), when a core hat was used
to achieve the situation prior to Tom's commit (see revision 1.304). I
don't see why this needs to change again, or how doing so serves the
user base.
I suggest that the archives are consulted for the original discussion
re: this particular colour of bikeshed before we waste any more time.
Ceri
--=20
That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all.
-- Moliere
--0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD)
iD8DBQFEiqtTocfcwTS3JF8RAmdzAJ4vl15d+k0hQLIe0bi3Sso7kSyfewCgwUOu
y+p/1vbSw7lJzwPAvBp2siQ=
=wXcU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--0WGqsT62A4RTsSXf--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20060610112155.GF23618>