Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:38:09 +0000 From: =?UTF-8?B?6Z+T5a625qiZIEJpbGwgSGFja2Vy?= <askbill@conducive.net> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 and HEAD: bge causes system hang Message-ID: <474B2EB1.7020304@conducive.net> In-Reply-To: <20071126200008.W65286@fledge.watson.org> References: <473AD98A.8050003@gmail.com> <20071114115254.GA55351@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <473AEED9.6070301@gmail.com> <200711161618.40441.jkim@FreeBSD.org> <474AE170.7020309@net.utcluj.ro> <20071126154611.W65286@fledge.watson.org> <474B168F.4020706@net.utcluj.ro> <20071126200008.W65286@fledge.watson.org>
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Robert Watson wrote: > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007, Cristian KLEIN wrote: > *snip* (this probbaly justifies a new thread ... but..) >> >> That is very unfortunate. Newer laptops don't come with a serial port >> anymore. As far as I know, using USB-to-serial converters won't work. > > Many notebooks do, however, have firewire. I've not read the firewire > code or used firewire for debugging, so I can't comment on how effective > breaks are, but I can say that one of the neatest things about firewire > is that you can inspect the kernel memory of a host remotely even when > it's frozen solid, which is pretty cool. So if you have a notebook that > is also without firewire, you may indeed be out of luck, but with > firewire, you have a nice new option. > *snip* > > I think getting an MPSAFE syscons would be desirable, but it's a > non-trivial piece of work, especially if you take into account that it's > tangled up in the tty code. If you have firewire, that may be a useful > option. However, I would agree with an assertion that notebooks are > becoming less useful as a development platform because of the omission > of a real serial port. *snip* A) Notebooks are at over 50% of new sales and climbing, so it isn't just as devel platforms - but as sources of 'field reports' of tester / user encountered problems that will become an ever-growing challenge. Worse, unlike a conventional MB, one cannot just plug in a bus card and emulate (or substitute for) the key subsystem involved, so at some point those laptops need to be accomodated. B) It isn't just laptops. Mac Mini-like, small-format packaging is taking another chunk out of the field. These, too are legacy I/O challenged as well as limited in bus sockets. C) Even full-ATX size MB have long-since begun shedding (external) serial ports as well as PS2 mouse & keyboard-ports, may not even ship with the cables or connectors to attach to such 'legacy' serial connectors as reamin - usually well-hidden somewhere on the MB. D) Much as I like FW, I haven't seen any indication that it has a guarantee of survival or universality any greater than once-common IRDA did. Too many price-driven decisions favor 'good enough' and far more common USB 2. Something will be needed soon/already to cover the general gap of missing SIO. We probably *can* count on audio I/O not going away, so perhaps ASCII to fsk - or even text to speech. :-( Bill
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