Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:47:50 +1100 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> Cc: Mark Ovens <marko@uk.radan.com>, Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, "Pedro F. Giffuni" <pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Message-ID: <19981228104750.15675@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM %2B1030 References: <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <xzpg1a3mzhe.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com> <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com>
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On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 21:10:15 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote:
> > Brett Glass wrote:
> >> At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote:
> >>
> >>> pah-ehh-yah is more like it...
> >>
> >> Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced
> >> as a short "e".
> >>
> >
> > Which was the point I was making in my post. It's bloody difficult for
> > Engish speakers (and a few other languages by the sound of it) to
> > pronounce it _exactly_ right, as a Spanish speaker would because that
> > sound doesn't exist in English. Therefore, when some words come into
> > common use in another language the pronounciation changes, which is what
> > I said in reply to Brett stating
> >
> > "....when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot
> > seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the
> > accented syllables and often the vowels.".
>
> It's not a problem of the sounds, all of which any native English
> speaker uses in normal conversation. The problem is representing them
> so that people can understand them. It doesn't even always help if
> they say them to you, because you'll subconsciously strip off the part
> that you attribute to their accent.
>
> True story:
>
> Some years back, in Germany, we had an American girl working with
> us, an unusual situation in those days. On one occasion, I was
> talking with one of my German colleagues about a (FORTRAN) program
> he was writing, and he referred to the `cummen' section. I said
> ``That's pronounced `common', not `cummen'''. He said, ``that's
> because you're Australian. The Americans pronounce it `cummen'''.
> So we asked (forgot what her name was) how she pronounced it. She
> said `common'. My German colleague said ``see? She said
> `cummen'''.
No, I'm sure she would have said "cummen", or at least "caahmen". You
said yourself that the o sound is one that the Americans don't use.
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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