Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:30:13 -0700 From: John Nielsen <lists@jnielsen.net> To: Current FreeBSD <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Cc: Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Message-ID: <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net> In-Reply-To: <befa59eb-b458-48c4-91f4-af326095557e@blastwave.org> References: <befa59eb-b458-48c4-91f4-af326095557e@blastwave.org>
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--Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jan 15, 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke = <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote: >=20 > Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big > three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user > type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a > month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With > FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it exists in source form and one > can compile *anything* needed. Am I wrong here? >=20 > So correct me, with a taser to the left, gently, if I am wrong. >=20 > Sure, a user can just use whatever packages are being provided by some > magic server somewhere in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that > dance on the rainbows. >=20 >=20 > Failed: ?? >=20 > Poudriere lately always says fail. >=20 > Every day. >=20 >=20 > Every time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag = the > logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps = misled > with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a user. = This > is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not IBM or Red = Fat. >=20 > Why do I always see things like this : >=20 > Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 = Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:09:43 >=20 > Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ? Every = day. >=20 > [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 = Built: 20 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: = 295 Time: 00:03:39 >=20 > It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail. >=20 > So I am happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine. >=20 > The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long > time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. >=20 > For a long time now. >=20 > So then, do I labour under the false assumption that FreeBSD can be, > you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human type? Am I lost here ? >=20 > If the power to serve is just a backend server. Then fine. State that > up front and lets drop the whole user stuff into a deep oubliette. If you want to get a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the = pre-built packages (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and = unicorns notwithstanding). If you choose to build all of your software locally that is 100% a = supported option but it does put more responsibility on you, the user. = When you get a build failure you are welcome to report it to the = maintainer (listed in every single port file) and/or the appropriate = mailing list (which -current is not, btw). Include the commands you are = running and other configuration details as well as the exact error = output. Note, however, that the automated package build system already emails = port maintainers on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I = don=E2=80=99t see any such reports in the mailing list archives = (https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view = the results of the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also = uses poudriere) by following the instructions here: = https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/ On a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped = ports related to the desktop environments you mentioned. = (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-q= uarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa) I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more troubleshooting on your local system = and provide some better details if you decide to ask for help in an = appropriate forum, such as the freebsd-questions mailing list or the = online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ or the mailing list(s) = listed as maintainers for the ports you are having problems building. Good luck, JN= --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">On Jan 15, = 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> = wrote:<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br><div><div> = Over the past month or so I see endless fails in = builds for the big<br> three user facing window manager things. This = means that a simple user<br> type person can not get a desktop. Really? = Yes really. For at least a<br> month or more you can not build KDE5 nor = LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With<br> FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it = exists in source form and one<br> can compile *anything* needed. Am I = wrong here?<br><br> So correct me, with a taser = to the left, gently, if I am wrong.<br><br> Sure, a user can just use = whatever packages are being provided by some<br>magic server somewhere = in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that<br>dance on the = rainbows.<br><br><br> Failed: = ??<br><br> Poudriere = lately always says fail.<br><br> = Every day.<br><br><br> Every = time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag = the<br>logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps = misled<br>with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a = user. This<br>is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not = IBM or Red Fat.<br><br> Why do I always see things like this :<br><br> = Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 = Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 Time: = 00:09:43<br><br> Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even = 15.0 ? Every day.<br><br>[142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] = [parallel_build] Queued: 315 Built: 20 Failed: 0 = Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 = Tobuild: 295 Time: 00:03:39<br><br> It will fail. For = 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail.<br><br> So I am = happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine.<br><br> The = whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long<br> = time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over.<br><br> For a = long time now.<br><br> So then, do I labour under the false assumption = that FreeBSD can be,<br> you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human = type? Am I lost here ?<br><br> If the power to serve is just a = backend server. Then fine. State that<br> up front and lets drop the = whole user stuff into a deep = oubliette.<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>If you want to get = a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the pre-built packages = (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and unicorns = notwithstanding).</div><div><br></div><div>If you choose to build all of = your software locally that is 100% a supported option but it does put = more responsibility on you, the user. When you get a build failure you = are welcome to report it to the maintainer (listed in every single port = file) and/or the appropriate mailing list (which -current is not, btw). = Include the commands you are running and other configuration details as = well as the exact error output.</div><div><br></div><div>Note, however, = that the automated package build system already emails port maintainers = on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I don=E2=80=99t see = any such reports in the mailing list archives (<a = href=3D"https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/">https://lists.fr= eebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/</a>). You can even view the results of = the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also uses poudriere) = by following the instructions here: <a = href=3D"https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/">https://peop= le.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/</a></div><div><br></div><div>On = a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped ports = related to the desktop environments you mentioned. (<a = href=3D"https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141= amd64-quarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa">https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/b= eefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-quarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa= </a>)</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more = troubleshooting on your local system and provide some better details if = you decide to ask for help in an appropriate forum, such as the = freebsd-questions mailing list or the online forums at <a = href=3D"https://forums.freebsd.org/">https://forums.freebsd.org/</a> = or the mailing list(s) listed as maintainers for the ports you are = having problems building.</div><div><br></div><div>Good = luck,</div><div><br></div><div>JN</div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7--
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