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Date:      Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:30:13 -0700
From:      John Nielsen <lists@jnielsen.net>
To:        Current FreeBSD <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org>
Subject:   Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea?
Message-ID:  <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net>
In-Reply-To: <befa59eb-b458-48c4-91f4-af326095557e@blastwave.org>
References:  <befa59eb-b458-48c4-91f4-af326095557e@blastwave.org>

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On Jan 15, 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke =
<dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote:
>=20
>    Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big
> three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user
> type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a
> month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With
> FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it exists in source form and one
> can compile *anything* needed. Am I wrong here?
>=20
>     So correct me, with a taser to the left, gently, if I am wrong.
>=20
> Sure, a user can just use whatever packages are being provided by some
> magic server somewhere in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that
> dance on the rainbows.
>=20
>=20
>        Failed:  ??
>=20
>        Poudriere lately always says fail.
>=20
>        Every day.
>=20
>=20
> Every time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag =
the
> logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps =
misled
> with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a user. =
This
> is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not IBM or Red =
Fat.
>=20
> Why do I always see things like this :
>=20
>    Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1  Skipped: 9  Ignored: 0  Fetched: 0 =
Tobuild: 0   Time: 00:09:43
>=20
> Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ?  Every =
day.
>=20
> [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 =
Built: 20  Failed: 0   Skipped: 0   Ignored: 0   Fetched: 0   Tobuild: =
295  Time: 00:03:39
>=20
> It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest".  Fail.
>=20
> So I am happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine.
>=20
> The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long
> time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over.
>=20
> For a long time now.
>=20
> So then, do I labour under the false assumption that FreeBSD can be,
> you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human type?  Am I lost here ?
>=20
> If the power to serve is just a backend server. Then fine. State that
> up front and lets drop the whole user stuff into a deep oubliette.

If you want to get a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the =
pre-built packages (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and =
unicorns notwithstanding).

If you choose to build all of your software locally that is 100% a =
supported option but it does put more responsibility on you, the user. =
When you get a build failure you are welcome to report it to the =
maintainer (listed in every single port file) and/or the appropriate =
mailing list (which -current is not, btw). Include the commands you are =
running and other configuration details as well as the exact error =
output.

Note, however, that the automated package build system already emails =
port maintainers on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I =
don=E2=80=99t see any such reports in the mailing list archives =
(https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view =
the results of the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also =
uses poudriere) by following the instructions here: =
https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/

On a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped =
ports related to the desktop environments you mentioned. =
(https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-q=
uarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa)

I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more troubleshooting on your local system =
and provide some better details if you decide to ask for help in an =
appropriate forum, such as the freebsd-questions mailing list or the =
online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ or the mailing list(s) =
listed as maintainers for the ports you are having problems building.

Good luck,

JN=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">On Jan 15, =
2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke &lt;dclarke@blastwave.org&gt; =
wrote:<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br><div><div> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Over the past month or so I see endless fails in =
builds for the big<br> three user facing window manager things. This =
means that a simple user<br> type person can not get a desktop. Really? =
Yes really. For at least a<br> month or more you can not build KDE5 nor =
LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With<br> FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it =
exists in source form and one<br> can compile *anything* needed. Am I =
wrong here?<br><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;So correct me, with a taser =
to the left, gently, if I am wrong.<br><br> Sure, a user can just use =
whatever packages are being provided by some<br>magic server somewhere =
in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that<br>dance on the =
rainbows.<br><br><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Failed: =
&nbsp;??<br><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Poudriere =
lately always says fail.<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Every day.<br><br><br> Every =
time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag =
the<br>logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps =
misled<br>with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a =
user. This<br>is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not =
IBM or Red Fat.<br><br> Why do I always see things like this :<br><br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 &nbsp;Skipped: 9 =
&nbsp;Ignored: 0 &nbsp;Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 &nbsp;&nbsp;Time: =
00:09:43<br><br> Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even =
15.0 ? &nbsp;Every day.<br><br>[142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] =
[parallel_build] Queued: 315 Built: 20 &nbsp;Failed: 0 =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Skipped: 0 &nbsp;&nbsp;Ignored: 0 &nbsp;&nbsp;Fetched: 0 =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Tobuild: 295 &nbsp;Time: 00:03:39<br><br> It will fail. For =
2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". &nbsp;Fail.<br><br> So I am =
happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine.<br><br> The =
whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long<br> =
time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over.<br><br> For a =
long time now.<br><br> So then, do I labour under the false assumption =
that FreeBSD can be,<br> you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human =
type? &nbsp;Am I lost here ?<br><br> If the power to serve is just a =
backend server. Then fine. State that<br> up front and lets drop the =
whole user stuff into a deep =
oubliette.<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>If you want to get =
a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the pre-built packages =
(which are signed and verified by default, clouds and unicorns =
notwithstanding).</div><div><br></div><div>If you choose to build all of =
your software locally that is 100% a supported option but it does put =
more responsibility on you, the user. When you get a build failure you =
are welcome to report it to the maintainer (listed in every single port =
file) and/or the appropriate mailing list (which -current is not, btw). =
Include the commands you are running and other configuration details as =
well as the exact error output.</div><div><br></div><div>Note, however, =
that the automated package build system already emails port maintainers =
on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I don=E2=80=99t see =
any such reports in the mailing list archives (<a =
href=3D"https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/">https://lists.fr=
eebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/</a>). You can even view the results of =
the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also uses poudriere) =
by following the instructions here:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/">https://peop=
le.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/</a></div><div><br></div><div>On =
a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped ports =
related to the desktop environments you mentioned. (<a =
href=3D"https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141=
amd64-quarterly&amp;build=3D7b2027223baa">https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/b=
eefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-quarterly&amp;build=3D7b2027223baa=
</a>)</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more =
troubleshooting on your local system and provide some better details if =
you decide to ask for help in an appropriate forum, such as the =
freebsd-questions mailing list or the online forums at&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://forums.freebsd.org/">https://forums.freebsd.org/</a>&nbsp;=
or the mailing list(s) listed as maintainers for the ports you are =
having problems building.</div><div><br></div><div>Good =
luck,</div><div><br></div><div>JN</div></body></html>=

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