Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeffrey Bouquet" <jbtakk@iherebuywisely.com> To: "current" <current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8) Message-ID: <E1asbZj-0003Ra-Qs@rmm6prod02.runbox.com> In-Reply-To: <57166870.5060104@FreeBSD.org>
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:18:40 +0300, Lev Serebryakov <lev@FreeBSD.org> wrote:
> On 19.04.2016 19:28, Nathan Whitehorn wrote:
>=20
> > 3. Have ~10 meta packages that just depend on sets of the 755 packages
> > and hide the internal details. This gives the user experience of (1)
> > with the implementation of (2), and is marginally more complex than eit=
her.
> How does it help Slawa with his broken system when "pkg upgrade"
> replace only half of "base" packages?
>=20
> Meta-packages as they are now: "no files, only dependencies" doesn't
> help here at all.
>=20
> Really, if I want "base but no sendmail" I want easy way to see it
> after 5 years after installation, and 755 packages, covered or not by
> meta-packages, will need me to read all list of 754 packages to see,
> that there is no sendmail, for example. It is trivial example, but it is
> completely valid. And there are many other such corner cases, which is
> common for administrators and ops, but not for developers.
>=20
> Please, consider ops and admins, who must support old installations,
> often made by other, not-reachable, people, and stuff like this,
>=20
> --=20
> // Lev Serebryakov
Thoughts PRO pkg base from here:
it can fix a broken installworld that breaks midway rendering the system n=
o able to login, not
able to compile or install futher, or some other event... Can those failur=
es be crafted purposely
to show how the could be readily per procedure if a usual installworld fa=
ils?
Thoughts ANTI pkg base from here:
Several, but I have thought of more work required for developers who have =
custom kernels and
a large amount of code that is BETA and not READY yet and are slowed down=
by conforming
to additional pkg-base requirements.. hindering creativity
...
Sparse initial documentation or at some time not upto par
...
*FLOWCHART" demonstrating precisely the relationship between a pure-pkg-ba=
se and pure-svn-base
system, a mixture of the two, how to migrate parts/all of one to the other=
, one edge a desired install
or several types of same, the other (two) edges where one starts out from=
... that could be updated
over the years for a comprehensive overview.
=20=20=20=20=20
[ AS AN ASIDE, ] I always tend to think that as missing already in pkg=
, svn, synth, poudriere, jails,
chroot, wpa_supplicant, ndisalator, linux-c6, binutils >> << gcc , zfs=
, ssh_config, ipfw, pf, geli,
gpart, UEFI, xorg.conf, some individual ports, [ I should stop typing =
here, because even as I
type more things come to mind... problem with a port ? pr OR maintaine=
r OR documentation OR...
flowchart... etc ]
stuff-to-leave-out-or-include-in-a-kernel, buildworld/installworld, pp=
p.conf, NOT AS CRITICISM but
as "Why is it not at least as good for newbies to each concept or bett=
er than a WIKI !!! as
not only the simplified explanation sometimes can be made more apparen=
t of which cli to issue next,
but time spent reading stuff NOT specific to the task at hand is saved=
.=20
=20=20=20=20=20
Adequate testing? some breakage bound to happen... fixing such breakage p=
rocedures in place?
A UPDATING for pkg-base specifically?=20
Again, not wishing to waste one's time, just writing down what I've thought=
of so far, freely simply file
it away rather than reply online... my answers to any reply could simply r=
e-iterate the background to the
above (I am NOT well versed in many topics of FreeBSD, just in the more use=
ful ones at the
installs that I use daily... ).=
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