Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:08:36 -0700 From: Eitan Adler <lists@eitanadler.com> To: Chris Rees <utisoft@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown <j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) Message-ID: <CAF6rxgkc2KYY_6iHsF8AzC8ba9-hPHAHdN85fQmfwxUU3-Hhpw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CADLo83_Br6qM1sKu_rWbhExveYiQs4ZWJVNozwZzb%2BDB=PMvsg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CA%2BQLa9B-Dm-=hQCrbEgyfO4sKZ5aG72_PEFF9nLhyoy4GRCGrA@mail.gmail.com> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <CADLo83_Br6qM1sKu_rWbhExveYiQs4ZWJVNozwZzb%2BDB=PMvsg@mail.gmail.com>
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On 5 July 2012 03:28, Chris Rees <utisoft@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 5, 2012 11:16 AM, "Jonathan McKeown" <j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote:
>> > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote:
>> > > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown
>> > >
>> > > <j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> wrote:
>> > >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate,
>> > >> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like:
>> > >>
>> > >> alias dir=ls
>> > >
>> > > Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN
>> > > { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol
>> > > and Pascal.
>> >
>> > Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful.
>>
>> It was intended to be a slightly humorous response to your original
> question:
>>
>> > why would you *not* want a feature that tells you what to
>> > install if you type a command that doesn't exist on the system?
>>
>> rather than ``elitist crap'' (as was the deliberately the over-the-top
>> comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to
> use
>> a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional
> tools
>> to help them ``settle in'' (but see below).
>>
>> You might also notice that I made a suggestion that might help people
>> migrating - namely some adaptation of the Unix Rosetta Stone in the
> Handbook
>> so that people who know how to do something in Linux are quickly guided to
>> the best way to do it in FreeBSD (and perhaps vice versa).
>>
>> > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it
>> > off. No problem.
>>
>> No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is
>> created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I
>> didn't want in the first place. Given the choice between a system in
> which I
>> switch on whatever I need, versus one which has absolutely everything
>> switched on where I spend ages switching it all off/deinstalling it all, I
>> know which I prefer - and others have made similar comments.
>
> That's crazy- this is the logic that led to our sh having tab completion
> and history disabled by default for years. How many people honestly knew
> it was there? The people who would benefit from this feature are the ones
> who wouldn't know it was there.
The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this
means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific.
--
Eitan Adler
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