Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 22:11:26 +0300 From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk <m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com> To: Paul Procacci <pprocacci@gmail.com> Cc: David Raver <david.raver@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Goodbye Message-ID: <CAOgwaMsu8Nk0z9gJjDq9TDays6Z_5Zwwd7s6N-1-y1dk8DS%2BVg@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAFbbPugTBBRyxoKt70ZRHJ_cm6t4oGgEr1%2BgJfoVD9q2C=K_Mw@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAKy4t%2B-1sKV8mTfcgfb2Vqo=h28ns8CtsTzyKPSVBU2W0qreLg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFbbPugTBBRyxoKt70ZRHJ_cm6t4oGgEr1%2BgJfoVD9q2C=K_Mw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 7:54 PM Paul Procacci <pprocacci@gmail.com> wrote: > It's okay to fail and blame your failure on your lack of abilities. No one > here will hold that against you. > > FreeBSD is superior to most others in many many ways. > Surely it has some warts, but they are far and few between. > > I've been saying this for 3 decades now and I continue to say it. FreeBSD > is an administrators' OS at heart. > Whether true or not at this point in time is mostly irrelevant to me only > that I still say it. > > YOU failed to conquer it; that's no one else's fault but your own. > > ~Paul > > > I am reading these messages to learn very good ideas and I am pleased to read them . My opinions are "good" plus some "bad" ones . My computing adventure started in 1965 when I was an elementary teacher in a village in Turkey at the age of 18 . In those days their name was "electronic brain" in the field of mathematics "priests" meaning people having very high IQs . I have decided to attend a university but with English language teaching . In Turkey they were Middle East Technical University belonging to the State and Robert College ( a private and ex[ensive one ) . In 1970 at the METU I learned Fortran with my efforts and then I have continued . I have started with FreeBSD 2.x . Since it was unusable , I have waited up to 7.x . I have started to use it upto 9.0 ( still a few hard disk are containing them with a server staying unused , because it could not be possible to run them due to unacceptable slow execution . It could not be possible to find a solution to remedy this problem . I have switched to ( Linux ) Mandriva . Some time later Mndrive has died and I have switched Fedora and I am now using it continuously on all my computers including a NFS server . What is the problem with FreeBSD ? There is no problem with FreeBSD . The problem is it requires an MSc degree ( as exaggerated ) in "How to use FreeBSD" . Always , approximately many persons are saying that use of FreeBSD requires "expertise" to use it . In that case the problem is how to acquire that expertise . If memory of a person is not very sharp , it is necessary to use a thick binder of flash cards about how to install and "adjust" parameters to be able to use it . When KDE is used , it is possible ( perhaps easy ) to use peripherals like in Linux or Windows : No CD , DVD record , no USB stick usage , etc. , if you do not know how to use them through your expertise . Documentation is very excellent , but with a "SINGLE" Handbook or Manuals attempting to cover ALL of the active versions , which is not possible to represent them correctly . I have suggested that "Please make Handbook and Manuals ( these may be ) a part of sources and and a version branched continue to improve Handbook about that version . I think that this idea is not supported . This common Handbook contains many errors due to not being updated correctly with respect to versions ( I say that doing this in that way makes it extremely difficult ) . ( I want to say that my PhD is about "A Multi-Media Information Management System . The more correct name would be... Knowledge ... , but the system is able to design , manage ( Data , Information , Knowledge ), their average may be considered Information ... ) If FreeBSD does not change it policy to move toward "average" ( in the sense of "not expert" ) user level , for me , its future will be difficult because if the user base is small it will likely not many people will support it because , especially commercial companies will not be able to recover expenses about supporting the FreeBSD , meaning their efforts will be on the "loss" side ( excluding exceptions ) . I have opened many bug reports many years before . To my knowledge at least many of them have been resolved . At present I am a subscriber of many mailing lists of FreeBSD and continuously I am reading them . My primary aim is to take a copy of FreeBSD and start from scratch to develop a new one with a very different development structure to improve it because I need such an operating system to support my knowledge base design and management system . The current structure and development system is not able to support it . The best operating system seems to be FreeBSD , if it is not , the next one is DragonFly BSD . Perhaps the other BSD variants are also good , I do not know in detail . Thank you to all of the developers and users of FreeBSD , and my best wishes are for you in this CoVid-19 pandemic and all other days , forever . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > On Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:58 PM David Raver <david.raver@gmail.com> wrote: > > > To Whom It May Concern: > > > > This is not merely a question, it's mostly a complaint. Let me explain. > > > > Some time ago I started a (c++) project which I wanted to make as general > > (in an OS sense) as possible. > > Meaning: the same source (with as little of ifdefs as possible) should > > compile, link and run on as many operating systems as possible. > > > > So... out of the BSD family I chose FreeBSD as I'd read/heard that it had > > been... well... the best. > > > > I installed it into a VirtualBox. Can't remember how, but it was what a > > developer needed: a graphical environment, everything easily accessible. > As > > it should be. > > > > Then the project was put aside for quite some time until a couple of > months > > ago when it's extensive generalization was brought to a stage when it > > worked on Linux, MacOS and Windows, it's primary systems. > > > > So, I fired a VirtualBox up again meaning to try to build it on FreeBSD. > > Sadly it didn't work. Not that it didn't compile. It did. The linker > > failed, though. > > Researching why, I came to a conclusion that it's version didn't support > > what I'd needed. OK, I said, an upgrade should fix that. > > Not being small-time I decided to not only upgrade the c++ (g++) > > development platform, but rather the whole operating system. I looked up > > (on Google) how to do it and... I did it. I mean I started the upgrade. > > > > Pay attention now because here it's where it all starts: the upgrade > failed > > in such a way that not only the c++ development platform was unusable, > but > > the OS refused to boot. All I'd seen had been a black screen. > > > > Steam started to blow out of my ears, but I still kept it together. OK, I > > said, maybe the upgrade wasn't a good decision anyway. > > Let's start from scratch and install the latest version (13) which will > > automatically solve all of the problems. > > Fired up a VirtualBox, created a new machine using the downloaded ( > > https://www.freebsd.org/where/) file. Booted up with the option 1 > > (multiple > > users, as it should be the usual case, right?). > > Instead of the expected GUI and some dialogs creating the user account I > > was met with the console demanding username and password from me. What?!? > > The first thing that went through my mind was that if this had been the > > case with a certain Microsoft's operating system, it surely wouldn't have > > had the market share it has today. > > > > After a little research (man, I love the small print!) on your page I > came > > up with the account data and logged in. OK, I said, this isn't going to > do. > > I need a GUI and some developer tools. Let's install that. > > But, the OS said, you can't do that unless you're a superuser. No > problem. > > Tried sudo as I'm used to from Linux. Nope. Tried su. It said: "Sorry". > > What?!? > > Google helped again: in order to do that one must choose option 2 while > > booting. Fsck!?! Obviously one must have a BSD degree to use a computer. > > OK, after a restart (and successful su) I googled about installing a GUI > > (KDE to be exact). Being unpleasantly surprised that, instead of a > > oneliner, one has to buy a new keyboard with an extended life expectancy > in > > order to type an equivalent of Tolstoy's War and Peace. > > Man, how hard is it to put something in a shell script?!? > > > > Before embarking on such an enterprise, I read some more small print and > > found out that, before that, one has to install X (probably demanding > > another fresh keyboard). And before that one has to install something > else > > still. > > Can't remember what because I shut the OS down and hit a couple of dels > > removing everything even remotely related to FreeBSD from my computer. > > > > So, before yous geniuses decide to make an OS even remotely usable so > that > > an average developer doesn't need to have a doctorate of General BSDvity > > Theory in order to use it, it's Goodby from me Argentina. > > > > D. > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >
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