Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:14:26 -0800 From: Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> To: Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> Cc: Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org>, Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>, Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net>, Hackers freeBSD <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> Subject: Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components) Message-ID: <201901051914.x05JEQL4023724@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: Message from Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> of "Sat, 05 Jan 2019 10:52:50 -0800." <F4A2607D-BB3E-4D00-B8D9-C633DB7C0102@gmail.com>
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In message <F4A2607D-BB3E-4D00-B8D9-C633DB7C0102@gmail.com>, Enji Cooper writes : > > > > On Jan 3, 2019, at 14:51, Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> wro > te: > >> > >> In message <alpine.BSF.2.20.1901032030260.40635@puchar.net>, Wojciech > >> Puchar wr > >> ites: > >>>>> That's precisely how ideas that most people disagree with get *pushed* > >>>>> through by evangelists with confirmation bias! Like someone said > >>>>> earlier in the discussion: does Rust add anything? The answer is a > >>>>> resounding NO, save for bloat. > >>>> > >>>> And this is why one reason people say “FreeBSD is dying†. > >>>> > >>> dying for whom? > >> > >> Not to answer this question but to think strategically: > >> > >> I come from the corporate/government environment, having spent most of > >> my time there. Large datacentres (Canadian spelling), large machines, > >> large networks of machines, large networks. In this environment, today, > >> virtualization in all forms are the platforms of business. Migrations > >> from physical platforms running AIX, Solaris and Linux to either Linux > >> on VMware or Linux containers is where they are putting 100% of their > >> effort. The language of choice is mostly Java. Much of the Java is > >> canned too. What used to be implemented on LAMP stacks is now being > >> implemented using microservices. The platform of choice for > >> microservices is Linux. Stripped down Linux primarily capable of > >> supporting microservices. And now at $JOB we're talking about running > >> microservices on Linux VMs -- virtualization on virtualization, on a > >> virtual network (NSX). My customers are working on microservices and > >> containers that can be migrated from their private cloud to the public > >> cloud and back again easily. > >> > >> Even Microsoft is working on a container strategy. The future is > >> containers. The desktop platform isn't nearly as important any more. > >> And, the physical server, its location, what it runs on and who runs it > >> are also less important. What is important is the speed and cost > >> effectiveness of standing up applications. > >> > >> IMO we have strengths that can immediately be capitalized on, like the > >> Linuxulator. If anything could be in base it might be go, the language > >> Kubernetes is written in -- don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating > >> importing go into base. Having said that, transforming FreeBSD into a > >> PaaS platform, tying it all together using Kubernetes would position > >> FreeBSD for the future to come. Maybe I'm talking myself into go and > >> Kubernetes in base but maybe this could just as easily be done in ports. > >> > >> Think about this: Kubernetes in base or ports, using the Linuxulator > >> and jails (or an implementation of cgroups and namespaces constructs in > >> addition to jails). Bhyve and jails provide the enterprise with other > >> virtualization options such that a FreeBSD host could host Linux or > >> FreeBSD containers, Windows or other VMs, and FreeBSD jails, all on one > >> or a cluster of FreeBSD hosts, possibly part of a heterogeneous cluster. > >> > >> This IMO would position FreeBSD for the future. > >> > >> Maybe go and Kubernetes? Let's not be left behind. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > >> FreeBSD UNIX: <cy@FreeBSD.org> Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org > >> > >> The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > > > > FreeBSD support in Kubernetes would be great, but I don't think > > there's any reason to put it into base. > > +1. Kubernetes should remain as a port, given the development process that Fa > cebook and Google use being out of step with the BSDs (backwards compatibilit > y to the degree that BSD wants is generally a lower priority item). It's not a port yet but it will be. I prefer a smaller base relying on ports instead. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> FreeBSD UNIX: <cy@FreeBSD.org> Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.
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