Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 11:31:03 -0800 From: Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net>, Hackers freeBSD <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components Message-ID: <297D3C7B-BA50-4C20-A1A6-DFFE7A07E1F9@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfpJCfYXLrEoNsiZOc%2BtjnP92SGaX67PqZfLBaobRqfs1Q@mail.gmail.com> References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <e954a12f-5d23-7a3f-c29b-c93e1250965c@metricspace.net> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> <CADWvR2ju7y_rcY3MFe_381yBmPXgm1BA7RzA9ZTUfTtCHdFGLw@mail.gmail.com> <7BCC2D20-7CC5-42B1-BBD2-F3D077D59081@gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1901032030260.40635@puchar.net> <CANCZdfpJCfYXLrEoNsiZOc%2BtjnP92SGaX67PqZfLBaobRqfs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
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> On Jan 3, 2019, at 11:44, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:32 PM Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net> wrote: >> >> That's precisely how ideas that most people disagree with get *pushed* >> >> through by evangelists with confirmation bias! Like someone said >> >> earlier in the discussion: does Rust add anything? The answer is a >> >> resounding NO, save for bloat. >> > >> > And this is why one reason people say “FreeBSD is dying”. >> > >> dying for whom? It’s mostly dead to developers I’ve run across. If I had a dime for each time that I heard a sysadmin/SRE say, “gee, I like FreeBSD, but I have to use Linux instead”, “what is FreeBSD?”, or “oh, that OS.”, I would be a bit richer. Putting it this way, FreeBSD has been largely displaced by Linux in the datacenter because of mindshare (the large amount of advocacy by sysadmins/SREs, available documentation/training, etc), the fact that CI/distributed systems/VM support just works (allowing developers to deliver features to market or do opensource development more quickly), the fact that mobile/desktop mostly works with little to no tweaking (depending on the GNU/Linux distro/spin), etc. > And who is getting punished? We're having an interesting discussion about a possible new technology to use and developing criteria to know when we will know if/when it's useful. Apologies Warner—my goal in saying “shut up and code” (paraphrased), was to avoid continuing a bikeshed discussion, where there didn’t seem to be a lot of positive progress being made. Repeated statements (over 2x) like “rust is bloat”; “rust will never be in the base system”; etc is imho, non-constructive criticism. That’s more of where I was trying to come from with my reply to this subthread a couple days ago. Thank you for asking and pointing this fact out. I’m totally ok with continuing constructive discussion on the merits/demerits of python, rust, etc (keyword being constructive). Thank you very much, -Enji
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