Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 11:41:10 -0800 From: Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> To: Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> Cc: Hackers freeBSD <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components Message-ID: <D3993CAC-9F61-4FBC-A9C5-8D7F12307D4B@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CADWvR2jjTg9VaSEVH%2B7Vx0ncAWt%2B-cyOb=kDQbqyJYuAkW5WMg@mail.gmail.com> References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <e954a12f-5d23-7a3f-c29b-c93e1250965c@metricspace.net> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> <CADWvR2ju7y_rcY3MFe_381yBmPXgm1BA7RzA9ZTUfTtCHdFGLw@mail.gmail.com> <7BCC2D20-7CC5-42B1-BBD2-F3D077D59081@gmail.com> <CADWvR2jjTg9VaSEVH%2B7Vx0ncAWt%2B-cyOb=kDQbqyJYuAkW5WMg@mail.gmail.com>
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> On Jan 3, 2019, at 10:20, Igor Mozolevsky <igor@hybrid-lab.co.uk> wrote: > >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 17:41, Enji Cooper wrote: >> >> Igor, >> >>> On Jan 3, 2019, at 08:32, Igor Mozolevsky wrote: >>> >>> That's precisely how ideas that most people disagree with get *pushed* >>> through by evangelists with confirmation bias! Like someone said >>> earlier in the discussion: does Rust add anything? The answer is a >>> resounding NO, save for bloat. >> >> And this is why one reason people say “FreeBSD is dying”. >> >> If we stuck with status quo, we wouldn’t have llvm, would use just PowerPC/I > > Really, FreeBSD is dying because people don't want to experiment with > "new toys" that have *not* been proven to be effective at what they > claim to do while having been proven to be a bloat? Really, that's > your argument? Well, like And there I was thinking it way dying > because of long-term "issues" like this one: > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=203874 that prevent > me (and I suspect many many others) from virtualising FreeBSD and > causing a switch to the various flavours of Linux! Totally valid point. Given that I run VMware, I would like to see that fixed as well. > Like Wojciech said, absolutely nothing prevents you from forking off a > branch and even re-writing the entire code in Rust, just don't turn > around and say "I spend X amount of time on it therefore it must be > integrated into FreeBSD-proper regardless of the numerous shortfalls"! > As it stands the base install is too large as it is, and I have > recompile the whole thing with a whole bunch of WITHOUTs already, and > you're saying more bloatware should be added. I did my best to add those MK_* knobs a few years ago to speed up the build. I’m glad it’s usable.. > Maintainability is not about code, it's about people's skills and > documentation, if one is inept at C, or Python, what on Earth makes > you think they would write amazing code in Rust? Your argument simply > doesn't follow there at all. CompSci courses in the US (at least) has curricula which is based on Java/python. I had a hard enough time getting people to write modern C at Facebook (the primary language was modern C++ for infra, with Java and Python being other commonly used languages). People as a whole don’t like raw >> Tl;Dr: if you don’t have anything constructive to say, please rethink your replies and provide constructive criticism. Constructive criticism is welcome. Armchair nitpicking is not. > > Here's my constructive criticism: don't waste resources on an unproven > and still-evolving language; if you have *that* much free time on your hands > start working through BugZilla. > > > -- > Igor M.
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