Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 11:18:49 -0700 From: Walter Parker <walterp@gmail.com> To: Michael Gmelin <grembo@freebsd.org> Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Posting netiquette: HTML, attachments etc. Message-ID: <CAMPTd_DeZL=E_fPb-VzwP%2B32stLMK68hzONAS21hjOr16m-apQ@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <753A27F9-9CEA-4592-A44F-91164917358B@freebsd.org> References: <CAD2Ti2-UpyXYnNYCVCh%2BcUs-Q70b47CMeiPSK6BgYhB_3C0cLQ@mail.gmail.com> <753A27F9-9CEA-4592-A44F-91164917358B@freebsd.org>
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--00000000000064276005e25dd60f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, utf-8 is good, posting to multiple lists is bad (but ok when you do it), what about the original post? He was asking about HTML. UTF-8 !=3D HTM= L. UTF is a character encoding format. It is supported by most email clients and does not require HTML for support. Walter On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 2:56 AM Michael Gmelin <grembo@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On 26. Jun 2022, at 09:37, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > > > https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/blob/main/documentation/content/en= /books/handbook/eresources/_index.adoc > > > FreeBSD Handbook: Appendix C: updates and corrections > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D264754 > > > I'm glad that HTML is supported. > > > No, people should not be sending HTML emails to lists. > Consult history of email netiquettes to discover the many why's. > > Also, I want support for things such as PNG. > > > Attachments are not necessarily against such netiquettes, > but rightly tend to be administratively size limited. > > What is the possibility of getting the/a "netiquette" link in > > the FreeBSD Mailinglist footer that is already appended to all > > the messages? > > > There is no such footer appended to the lists, because they're bloat. > Their aims usually better done at first via signup, in quarterly, and > via the occaisional involuntary and accepted friendly cluebat. > > > we are dealing with real people working with the email > > clients available to them in 2022 > > > Same arguments was made in 1982 1992 2002 etc, and the netiquette > won validity for good reasons and is still taught trained and disciplined= . > > > Trying to stop people from using UTF-8 is futile. Also, quoting various > arguments from different people without context is bad style - I gave ver= y > specific examples, including the fact that a lot of email is written on > mobile devices where people don=E2=80=99t have control over many aspects = of how > things are sent and I argued which parts of netiquette could/should still > be followed given the realities of today and where we need to relax if we > want to have communication happen on our mailing lists. > > My answer here is an example of that - there is no reasonable way to > follow any line length limits on a phone and it also automatically choose= s > the typographically correct UTF-8 characters, even though I would prefer = to > use ASCII - but there is no way I=E2=80=99ll change every single "=E2=80= =98" to "'" > manually or disable the features that make typing on such a device an > acceptable experience. Just won=E2=80=99t happen. > > If your email client and/or your desktop can=E2=80=99t handle UTF-8, it= =E2=80=99s time to > fix your setup. > > -m > > p.s. Is it really necessary to have this discussion on multiple lists? > > --=20 The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandei= s --00000000000064276005e25dd60f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>So, utf-8 is good, posting to multiple lists is bad (= but ok when you do it), what about the original post? He was asking about H= TML. UTF-8 !=3D HTML. UTF is a character encoding format. It is supported b= y most email clients and does not require HTML for support.</div><div><br><= /div><div><br></div><div>Walter<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di= v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 2:56 AM Michael = Gmelin <<a href=3D"mailto:grembo@freebsd.org">grembo@freebsd.org</a>>= wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir= =3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr= "><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 26. Jun 2022, at 09:37, grarpamp <<a = href=3D"mailto:grarpamp@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">grarpamp@gmail.com</a>= > wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D= "ltr">=EF=BB=BF<blockquote type=3D"cite"><span><a href=3D"https://github.co= m/freebsd/freebsd-doc/blob/main/documentation/content/en/books/handbook/ere= sources/_index.adoc" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-d= oc/blob/main/documentation/content/en/books/handbook/eresources/_index.adoc= </a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></bl= ockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>FreeBSD Handbook: Appendix C: upda= tes and corrections</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>= <a href=3D"https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D264754" targ= et=3D"_blank">https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D264754</a= ></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></block= quote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>I'm glad that HTML is supported.<= /span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>No, people should not be send= ing HTML emails to lists.</span><br><span>Consult history of email netiquet= tes to discover the many why's.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><span>Also, I want support for things such as PNG.</span><br>= </blockquote><span></span><br><span>Attachments are not necessarily against= such netiquettes,</span><br><span>but rightly tend to be administratively = size limited.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Wh= at is the possibility of getting the/a "netiquette" link in</span= ><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>the FreeBSD Mailinglist f= ooter that is already appended to all</span><br></blockquote><blockquote ty= pe=3D"cite"><span>the messages?</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><sp= an>There is no such footer appended to the lists, because they're bloat= .</span><br><span>Their aims usually better done at first via signup, in qu= arterly, and</span><br><span>via the occaisional involuntary and accepted f= riendly cluebat.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><blockquote ty= pe=3D"cite"><span>we are dealing with real people working with the email</s= pan><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>clients available to t= hem in 2022</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Same arguments wa= s made in 1982 1992 2002 etc, and the netiquette</span><br><span>won validi= ty for good reasons and is still taught trained and disciplined.</span><br>= </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Try= ing to stop people from using UTF-8 is futile. Also, quoting various argume= nts from different people without context is bad style - I gave very specif= ic examples, including the fact that a lot of email is written on mobile de= vices where people don=E2=80=99t have control over many aspects of how thin= gs are sent and I argued which parts of netiquette could/should still be fo= llowed given the realities of today and where we need to relax if we want t= o have communication happen on our mailing lists.</span></div><div><br></di= v><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">My answer here is an example of tha= t - there is no reasonable way to follow any line length limits on a phone = and it also automatically chooses the typographically correct UTF-8 charact= ers, even though I would prefer to use ASCII - but there is no way I=E2=80= =99ll change every single "=E2=80=98" to "'" manual= ly or disable the features that make typing on such a device an acceptable = experience. Just won=E2=80=99t happen.</span></div><div><span style=3D"colo= r:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span>If your e= mail client and/or your desktop can=E2=80=99t handle UTF-8, it=E2=80=99s ti= me to fix your setup.</span></font></div><div><br></div><div>-m</div><div><= br></div><div>p.s. Is it really necessary to have this discussion on multip= le lists?</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><b= r>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><span style=3D"font-fam= ily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(136,= 136,136)">The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by= men=C2=A0of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. =C2=A0 -- Justic= e Louis D.=C2=A0Brandeis</span></div></div> --00000000000064276005e25dd60f--
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